I know people usually want to keep things general, but it would be nice to know which programs interviewed you (and anyone else that had a similar board score). This combined with the region you are from would help applicants with lower scores know which programs won't automatically throw their application away. I'll start.

Step 1 Score 205
West coast applicant
Interviews: Yale, Stanford, UC Davis, UF Jacksonville, USC

I usually don't post anything, but suddenly wanted the need to chime in. Basically to say what has been said many times before. The application process is random, chaotic, and not a science.

I matched as a 1st time applicant at a strong program with the below specs. Just something for those who don't think they have a chance.

Step I]http://www.orthogate.org/media/kunena/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

this is the most reasonable post i've ever read on orthogate.

thanks

I follow this forum regularly, and I wanted to add to this excellent thread by telling my own story. I hope it will help some of the underdogs out there through this tough match process.

First, my stats:
School - top 5 schools for undergrad and med school
Boards - failed step 1, retake step 1 = mid 230s, step 2 = mid 230s (was in application)
Research - 2 significant pubs
Honors - only 2 in meaningless specialties (i.e. not surgery or medicine), other evals were "the rating right below honors" if it matters (probably not), not AOA
Extracurriculars - a ton, these are more important that you think
SubI's - one at home, two more at very good (but not heavy hitter) programs. I thought I made excellent impressions during all of my subi's but who knows.
Letters - 4 good ortho letters (2 from significant names), 1 stellar gensurg letter
Apps - applied to 75+ due to fear of not matching
Interviews - 16 offered, went on 13 at a wide range of places, from big name programs to smaller community ones. I would have gone to every one if if wasn't for scheduling conflicts

Yes, I failed step 1. To this day, I have no idea what happened. Needless to say, it was by far the greatest disappointment of my academic life and really made me question my decision to pursue medicine. I thought it would end all hopes of me matching in ortho, which I had wanted to do even prior to med school. I studied my tail off for the test the first time and felt ok after taking it, so I didn't fail for lack of effort or because I was sick or kicked the computer or whatever. I retook the test soon after the first result came back (using the exact same study method as the first time) and got in the mid 230s. Go figure. I even thought I did worse the second time around. My best guess was that some sort of error happened to my first test, but I will never know. I took step 2 early and did well to prove that the failure was a fluke. By applying for ortho, I took a big gamble with a significant chance that I would not match.

My Step 1 score came up at every interview I went on. My explanation was simply what I stated above. Almost everyone who interviewed me said, "Huh! That is so odd." A couple PDs even said, "That's not humanly possible, to go from failing to 230s. Something must have happened." I am certain that many programs immediately discounted my application when they saw the failure. However, for those that offered me an interview, I believe most of them disregarded the black flag and considered my application as if it wasn't there.

In the end, I was able to match at a great program (where I did a subI, ranked in my top 5) in a very desirable location.

My advice for the applicants, present and future:
- If ortho is what you really want, go for it. Don't let anything stop you (within reason of course).
- SubI's are critical. Be hard working, be tireless, and most importantly be someone that you'd personally want to work with and be co-residents with.
- Your extracurriculars can really separate you from the crowd. This is especially true during interviews.




-Borat from Kazakhstan

I usually don't post anything, but suddenly wanted the need to chime in. Basically to say what has been said many times before. The application process is random, chaotic, and not a science.

I matched as a 1st time applicant at a strong program with the below specs. Just something for those who don't think they have a chance.

Step I]http://www.orthogate.org/media/kunena/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Hmmm... I have a great Step One (and Step Two) but little else. Am I unique?

Hmmm... I have a great Step One (and Step Two) but little else. Am I unique?

no.

thank you, thank you for this thread! encouragement desperately needed and much appreciated.

Hmmm... I have a great Step One (and Step Two) but little else. Am I unique?

no.

Wouldn't care to share your stats would you bonedoc?

He asked a question about whether or not the fact that he has good scores and nothing else makes him unique. There are a lot of applicants that have good scores and not a lot of research or work experience or "not much else" so I said, No, b/c he is not unique in that aspect. What do my stats have to do with it??

He asked a question about whether or not the fact that he has good scores and nothing else makes him unique. There are a lot of applicants that have good scores and not a lot of research or work experience or "not much else" so I said, No, b/c he is not unique in that aspect. What do my stats have to do with it??

I thought you were referring to yourself....my bad.

I was just curious, not trying to start anything.

Well ladies and gents I bombed Step 1. I passed on the 1st try, but that is about it. Felt good when I took the exam, but when I got my score I think I could of had a heart attack. Felt as though failing it would have been better than the score I recieved. This, I guess is for all those who may be in my situation surfing the site looking for answers and hope. I have none to offer, but I will say that it is not the end of the world. Guess its time to face reality do some soul searching. For weeks I back tracked and thought about how I could of did this or that different in my preparation but in reality I can only imagine because it is behind me. If Ortho is or was your dream, either continue or re-evaluate yourself and goals...all in all life goes on if you dont get it.

I enjoyed all the threads from the good and the bad.

To all that rocked Step 1..my hat off to you and I wish you good luck in the process!

Well ladies and gents I bombed Step 1. I have none to offer,

IMO Step 1 is not criteria of your potential to be a good orthopod or a good physician , so do not feel less then others. Plus it is just 1 day exam ...may be something went wrong on that day. Somebody in other tread mentioned that most important factor for the Program Directors is your "performance on rotations". I totally agree . We had one resident in our department who was keep saying "I was very surprised when they took me, I had low scores, no AOA etc....they just liked me very much". I mean there is always a chance that you will meet one PD who cares more about your dedication and real potential rather then about some "medical student BRAIN development" TEST
which just like most of the tests might be False negative or False positive.
May be you will have to go thru Prelim Surg but if you like ortho that much ... one lost SURG year is nothing compare to the rest of your gained ORTHO life
good luck

I agree that it stinks so much emphasis is placed on step one, but programs want people to do well on that b/c they want people who will go out and do well on the next big standardized test, the Ortho boards. The RRC does not look kindly on places that have residents that fail their written boards consistently. It is especially important for programs with 2, 3 or 4 people b/c if one person fails it really would bring down your passing rate over the last five years.
Do I think that you have to get 270 to be a good orthopod? No way in hell. But unfortunatly it is a "right of passage" that you must go through to get a spot so that you can become the good orthopod you know you can be.

yes, you are right . IMO Step 2 is better predictor for that
...I just wanted to remind BoneKollector that low Step 1 score does NOT mean "game is over"

Do I think that you have to get 270 to be a good orthopod? No way in hell

Actually, there was a study done on the correlation between admissions criteria for residency positions and their OITE score. Step I had a stronger correlation than anything, but it was weak at best, and the correlation was found when comparing those over 220 to those under 220. There was a trend noticed with AOA, but nothing statistically significant. The authors concluded that the criteria used by programs to obtain residents has no major predictive value to their residents passing the OITE exams.

Actually, there was a study done .... Step I had a stronger correlation

as it is.. yes, because people do not study too much for the step 2
but ideally IMO step 2 correlates better with CLINICAL thinking (and probably with OITE exams) then step 1. Step 1 mainly reflects the memorising abilities and understanding of basic principles and you will ace it by heavy studying. For the Step 2 you need more talent.
May be I am wrong. But for me step2 was harder to take then step1

This should give y'all some hope...

Gender: chick
Step I: 221
Step II: 220, passed CS
Basic Science grades: FAILED first year (yes - FAILED) and had to repeat the WHOLE year with mostly high passes
Clinical grades: only one honors 3rd year, and it was in psych, honored all 3 ortho rotations 4th year
Class rank: somewhere in the middle
AOA: yeah right
CV: class president, lots of extracurriculars, a little research, no pubs, no college sports
Away rotations: 2, didn't match at either, even though chiefs from one and attendings from the other told me I was a sure thing
6 LORs from huge names (pres of AAOS, etc) with statements like "the best medical student I've worked with in 20 years", "would be an asset to any program, but we hope it's ours"
Interviews: UTSW, Missouri - Columbia, Stanford, Fort Wayne, Maryland, Drexel, UMich, Henry Ford, Indiana, MCW
Matched: yes - shouldn't matter where, but at my #2

Oh, and did I forget to say that I took a year off after med school because I was sick of medicine and wanted to travel?

If I matched, anyone can match. That's a generalization because random things happen, but your personality can get you far. The problem is that everyone thinks they have a great personality and that they work harder than the other students, which can't be true. My letters are the only reason I matched (because they got me interviews), but I earned every word of them.

For those of you with mediocre stats still doing rotations... bust your a$$. Write the notes, have dressing supplies, finish the post-op orders before the resident even preps the leg, smile at all times, don't complain, act interested (if this is difficult, you shouldn't be doing ortho). It seems like I'm stating the obvious, but I've told our current med student twice and he's still standing there empty-handed during rounds.

I also applied to general surgery b/c I didn't think I had a shot. I wake up every morning (at 3am) so grateful that I don't have to do 5 years of pus and bellies. I'm at a Level I trauma center in a major city, the guys in my program are awesome, and I'm totally happy during my intern year. I'm a lucky bastard.

Good luck to all. I hope this helps.

BoneNailer,

Thanks for sharing. And actually your testimony, if you will , does add hope. And thank you to all who responded to my post!

I'll add my $0.02 and add my THANKS to you who started this particular topic. I applied to ortho last year and didn't get in...kinda same story, low Step I (TOTALLY can empathize with opening the letter and feeling like my life ended), unfortunately also a low Step II. I'm currently doing a gen-surg prelim year and somehow fitting in the application process AGAIN. This certainly isn't the path I'd pictured, but I have to say that it has taught me a lot about just being a resident as well as reinforced my drive and desire to do orthopaedics...realized that there is nothing I'd rather be doing.

I am kinda at a quandry to know what to do next year...I'm currently acting on my 1st alternative plan, and while my second was to do a year of research and then reapply, the ortho PD where I am currently discouraged this. His rationale was that research only helps if you're trying to get into a program w/ heavy research emphasis (which isn't a bad thing where I'm concerned, he just didn't think it was very likely I'd get in). Any input?

You guys have given this girl a bit o' hope during this incredibly stressful time...thanks tons!

Mandi