i would rotate at places i could see myself going to....period. Of course, you always hear you can "hurt yourself" (which is true) but if you are confident in yourself.....rotate where you want to go....it will help you. As far as getting a letter, that is a tough call. Who's to say you will get a letter from that well-known faculty even if you rotate at that program. You may be on someone else's service while you rotate there, and if you did it solely for a letter....then you wasted a month when you could have been at the place you really like. Just a few things to think about.

Thanks for the reply. These were some of the issues I had in my mind but wasnt sure if I was going to "hurt myself" or not so I thought I would ask.

If I were you, I'd rotate at a big name program and a smaller program -- though, I think you should pick a big program that you could see yourself going to. I think rotating at a big name program can help you, even if you don't get a letter from the big name at the program. I can't tell you how many interviewers asked me about my aways and we were able to connect b/c I rotated at their residency program. As well, you might get some additional measure of respect if you do well at a big name program, plus you never know... you might really like the program after rotating there!

Some more good points....it is a tough decision for sure.

I think ill probably apply to several aways and wait to see which ones I get, for when, and go from there.

Is there a point where it would be looked down on for doing too many aways?? Say I do one at my home program, one at a community, and one at a university that I would like to attend.....would it hurt to try and do one last one at another community program? I dont want to kill myself doing aways but they are excellent opportunities to get to know the program, people, and some ortho on the way which, btw, is a heckuva lot better than this GIM stuff i'm doing now!

ps jet-x what is your screen ID? perhaps a reference to those little "jet-x" motors for models?

In my experience, 3 Ortho AI's was all the strength I had. Prior to that experience, I took great pride in my stamina. It isn't the 130 hours I worked necessarily, but walking on eggshells for 50 of those hours. It is tough to get noticed in the distinguished crowd we walk in. You'll find yourself volunteering for Q2 call and no days off whether community or university. If you have any character flaws you wish to hide you might want to stop at two AI's. Minor flaws will allow you to get through three. By a fourth AI you will be exposed, jaded, and extremely tired. My opinion- for what its worth

YES! 3 was definitely plenty. if i had to do another (4) Ortho Sub-I, i would have quit and did OB/GYN.....just kidding. but i agree: it's not so much the hours, but being the 4th yr that is trying to make a good impression, but not kiss ass, and not f*&$ up, etc, etc......but, to each his own

I would have to agree... I did 2 aways (in addition to 2 home rotations) and by my last ortho month, I was real tired from having to put on a good impression all the time. Also, there is something to be said about hurting yourself by doing an away if something goes wrong during that month. Could be anything, tripping over an attending in the OR, contaminating his equipment, etc. Just stuff to think about...

I'm planning on doing at least two aways; probably October and November (both academic places), but I think that I might also like to do one in February if I interview at a place and think that it is where I would like to be... any thoughts on this?

I agree that 2-3 months is good, more would hurt. As far as a feb rotation, I think that is too late. sometimes you can take a "second look" at some places you interviewed at and liked, but that is pretty limited due to tight interview scheduling on both ends (seems like almost all the other fields are pretty open to this, oh well). If you rotate at a place, go there in november or before. my $0.02

jason

I might even argue that November is kinda late for an away. It'll be too late to get any letters out of it and all your apps are gonna be in by that time so programs won't know that you rotated there. The only reason to do it then would be that you just really want to go to that specific program and rotating will help your chances of getting an interview/matching. Also I would think hard about applying to more places for aways than you plan on doing and waiting to see which ones you get. I don't know if it'll come back and bite you in the ass come interview time, but I think a better idea is to decide early where you want to go, and then get your application in the earliest possible. Generally it's not hard to get an away at most places, it's the timing of the away that might be a problem. I didn't do this, but some of my classmates applied to one more program than they were wiling to do, and then came up with a very diplomatic and polite excuse when they called the program to say that they couldn't make it.

as far as applying for aways: i would apply for 1-2 "extra." just in case the dates conflict for the ones that get approved. Now, this depends on which programs you are applying, b/c in general, as dingleberry said, it isn't that difficult to get an away. But if it is a big time program, you may not get the month you want. and, applying to more will NOT hurt you. the applications for Sub-I's don't go any further than the secretary/coordinators desk. faculty have no clue who's rotating until you show up. I got interviews at every place that i had to cancel my away....maybe others had different experiences.....

Lots of good info here....thanks for the replies! it seems the best thing to do is apply 3-4 aways and do 2, preferably one community and one university. as far as my own decisions ive got one of each that I would really like to rotate at but there is a 2nd community place that I wouldnt mind checking out either...... but advice/experience here seems to suggests not doing a 4th rotation for various reasons.


so heres a question i havent seen an anwser to yet....how many people match (what percentage) at places that they rotated at...ill see if i can find something with the search fxn

as for how many match at places they rotated......i've heard anywhere from about 60-80%......although that's all hearsay, can't say i've ever run across any hard numbers on that anywhere.

i would definitely agree with the "three is enough" sentiment of everyone above.....by the end of my 3 straight months my ass was dragging pretty bad.

consider doing your third overall and second community program in november. the recency effect matters more in intimate settings, in my opinion. i would hazard a guess that there are exactly zero programs that will have a class of all non-rotators from any year. referring to the infamous jbjs article, pd's ranked "rotation at pd's institution" numero uno (that means number one). would you marry someone you'd dated for 20 minutes? more a question of human nature than any rigorous science...

as for the workload of AI's: don't be intimidated. my experience was very different at the 2 west coast programs that i rotated at. maybe it's a regional thing, or maybe i'm just lazy. but i watched first hand as more than one AI blew up from stressing/working/going for perfect. if you had all the answers before you came, you wouldn't have to go to residency. accountability and volunteering to be helpful are the name of the game in any teamwork situation. my unsolicited advice is to make your best effort to spend quality hang time with the junior residents. i'm not sure why i feel compelled to add my .02 to this question that has been covered so well by my contemporaries...

i think i'll go and fetch my bottle and my carp (in that order)

well I did rotations at both community and academic places. I ended up at a community place b/c i liked the atmosphere so much (ha no prior experience with the community setting). If you already think you are leaning strongly towards the community route, my opinion would be to do a couple at community places that have a good reputation and are somewhere (geographically) you would not mind going to. Community programs tend to have fewer residents and "fit" is important of a criteria when you only take 2 or 3 people a year. Just my 2 cents.

Rocket Scientist:

That poor carp is getting Rodgered on this thread now as well, hunh? You are a sick, sick man - leave the poor carp alone already - he's waving the white flag. On a side note, good luck with the match. Just think - you're already an orthopaedic resident at some institution right now - you just don't know which one!