OrthoDreamer
OSRR Newbie
Posts: 2
(2/7/02 5:38:47 pm)
Reply California programs
Anybody have any word on the California programs, mainly Southern California such as UCLA, Harbor-UCLA, USC, UCSD, UCI?
hangman
OSRR Intern
Posts: 8
(2/7/02 10:44:34 pm)
Reply SoCal programs
I rotated at UCLA and have found that most of the rumors about the place are true- the residents simply don't get to operate enough. That being said, academically it is excellent and residents are able to obtain any fellowship they want. The residents there are very happy and have a very good lifestyle. I think you have to decide what is more important to you - a great operative experience or a well-rounded academic experience.
Harbor-UCLA is just about the most opposite you can get from UCLA (USC being the extreme opposite, but that is just second hand knowledge). Great operative experience, especially in trauma. Subspecialties leave something to be desired and didactics are not is strong. This is a county hospital where 60% of patients speak only spanish and there is very little money available for education. But- the residents know how to operate very well and teach the UCLA residents when they rotate through there in trauma.
UC-Irvine is a much better mix of didactic, academics, and operative experience. The faculty seem very approachable and willing to teach. Only downsides are that the residents work much harder than at UCLA and that UCI is only a level II trauma center.
UC-San Diego is a great program. I actually liked it the best of all the California programs, but it is 6 years. If research is your thing (research year is after intern year, before you actually know anything about ortho) then you can't go wrong. The chairman and program director are very involved and the residents get a great operative experience as well as strong didactics. Also, how can you argue with the location?
I don't have any first hand info about USC, I didn't apply to the program based on negative things I heard elsewhere.
Hope that helps! Good luck!
KY1
OSRR Newbie
Posts: 3
(2/8/02 12:08:51 am)
Reply Re: Stanford
Hangman, thanks for your comments. did you or anybody else rotate at Stanford and have any thoughts about it?
SoCalOrtho
OSRR Intern
Posts: 17
(2/8/02 12:16:50 am)
Reply UCI is Level I
NOT, level II. I spoke to chief resident today. Agree with above info.
SoCalOrtho
OSRR Intern
Posts: 20
(2/21/02 2:50:11 pm)
164.67.27.236
Reply | Edit | Del CA schools. . .
oh so painful. you ask a lot. but convenienty, i just sent in a big summary to my student advisor, who asks we write our opinions to help our 3rd year pre-ortho guys. here it goes:
USC:
No weakness in specialties. Trauma heavy. Ancillary staff sucks at big county. Spend about 1/2 time there, 1/2 in private hospitals or Rancho Los Amigos (with UCI guys). Residents work hard, and are pretty happy once they accept that they are stuck there. . I'm pretty sure only thh USC med students rank that place high. Have 10 residents, so if you rank it, you'll probably get it (interview 100, i'm guessing they take down to the 50s for 10 people). Some of the residents said they ranked it 10 out of 10! So, needless to say, they weren't happy when they arrived, but the chiefs were happy with their training. get to live in LA, but call rough on trauma (q4), but go home in morning. Poor supervision in OR, but trying to change that from up top (the chair). Quality of residents not that great (mostly because the better applicants probably go to higher ranked places, and USC gets whats leftover?) unless someone really wants to come/stay in SoCal.
Rating: 5/10
Stanford:
ON PROBATION. NO CHAIR. Good facilities. Happiest residents I saw in the country (comparable to Miami). great experience in the OR, except Tumor. See enough tumor, but no dedicated guy. OITE results sub-par in past, but working their way up because they are tired of people failing them. Should be removed from probation once they find a chair, which should happen this year. Supposedly money no object and they should get an outside guy, but if not, then it's goin to be Goodman, which will not be great for this program. Very low key, laid back, self-motivated program. No real didactics. Scrubs in clinic. operate a ton. Great research going on with Lane Smith, but don't know if the residents actually have an opportunity to do it because of time constraints. No weaknesses in coverage exept tumor, but no big name attendings either. Pay is great at 39,000 intern year, with 3000 moving bonus. Call q3-4 but ALL HOME CALL after intern year! Rating: 7/10, 8/10 if it weren't on probation, and 9/10 if other people respected it more (it does matter what others think).
UCSF:
Residents are cool, good mix of fun, yet all VERY bright. Work pretty hard there. Bradford works the residents hard, but he's stepping down in 2 years. Don't know what's going to happen after that. He tried to step down a few years ago and they didn't let him (no one wanted to job). Conference on some saturdays. Horrible pay for expensive city. Great operative experiene but rough call schedule . Residents seemed pretty happy, but more happy that they were in SF. Chiefs seemed pretty bitter. Seems like a program which is highly coveted, but once you're there, you might regret it because of the work load and some attendings are somewhat malignant. To give an idea of how two-faced this place is, i spent a month there and i was MISERABLE. I left thinking I wasn't going to rank it at all! Then, I thought it was a great education, and it was "the price to pay" to be a good surgeon. That and the food at the interview was pretty d@#n good. So it became No. 1 again. Then, slowly dropping as I realize I'll get a good education at a lot of places, and if the chiefs are bitter there, i'll probably end up bitter, too. It's become #3 on my list (would be lower, but SF is cool city) . Ranking: 7/10
UCDavis:
90% married. Sacramento sucks unless you're part of that 90%. Trauma call q2 (24hr on 24 off, but basically q2) for 3 months straight. need I say more? perhaps. ..that it is one of the most respected residencies on the West Coast. Great attendings. Nice guys, all veyr bright. Work hard. But if you're single going in, you're going to be single going out. . . no night life and no time to meet anyone there! Trauma there is BRUTAL, comparable to BU, UW, Miami, SC, UTSW. Residents are happy, but very tired. Operate a ton. Facilities best i've seen on trail. Resident-Attending interaction is great. Very friendly and helpful. didactics are great. Rating: 4/10 (location and work too hard)
UCSD:
Fantistic city, but have holes in program. On peds the residents don't operate. Down one resident because of state mandate, so often q3, which is rough. Also, if one goes on vacation, that means you're Q2. Have to round on in a car, because patients at multiple hospitals! 6 year program, with year of required research. When Garfin was asked how the residents felt about it, he replied, "we don't ask." He is a nice guy, but tells it like it is. not much depth in attendings. . . only one name per specialty, so you only get one guy's opinion on how to do something. Intern year is hard, then q3-4. Really beautiful city, however. Rating: 4/10
UCLA:
most overrated program in California. Operative experience worst i have ever heard of or seen ANYWHERE. I spent time there on 3 different services. Chiefs would fight with juniors for simplest of operative cases. Very strong resident versus attendings attitude here. All about making money and servicing hte patients and attendings. No one gives a crap about the residents except Lieberman, and he does so in an often interesting manner. Lieberman is leaving soon anyway for a chair position. Other places (UCSF, UCD, U of Chicago, MIAMI), the attendings are there to teach and help the residents. Here the residents are around to take care of scut and help the attendings with cases and clinic. Chair Finerman doesn't even know the residents' names. Big name. Great reserach. realy bright, really ncie residents. Good call schedule. Live in LA, and have the time to enjoy it (unlike USC or harbor). But don't get to operate, and attendings are not helpful. Not great didactics. Rating, 3/10, but because it's in LA and you can enjoy it, and the residents are cool lets bump it up to 4/10.
UC Irvine:
the most underrated program in California. Only hole is Tumor. Coverage everywhere else (but not deep coverage. As in a coule hand guys, one sports guy, one foot/ankle guy, etc). So if one guy leaves, there is now a hole. Lots of operating, because no fellows. Not a very big name academic place (mostly because other services at UCI suck,a nd UCI doesn't have a football team or MBA school for people to notice it). Chair skinner is nice guy and helpful, cares abotu resident education. Very well rounded education. Have to go to many differnt hospitlas as much as 44 miles apart, however. Residents all very happy there, all said they'd rank it No. 1 if they had to do it again . Call q3.5 at the UC, but home at VA, and home at Rancho los amigos (where they operate with USC guys). rating: 8/10.
Edited by: SoCalOrtho at: 2/21/02 2:55:15 pm
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