OrthoForMe
OSRR Newbie
Posts: 1
(1/20/02 2:03:51 pm)
Reply MS3 ? about LOR, aways
Glad I found this website...you guys give a lot of good info. After reading your numerous posts about how impt recommendation letters and aways are I wanted to get your opinions on a few things.
At my school 3rd year does not end until july 20 something and we are told to take USMLE II in aug. We have no elective time in 3rd year to do a month of ortho...meaning that the earliest I could do a full month would be Aug...I will be doing a 2 week rotation during March as an elective offered during my surgery rotation but we cannot do a month. I know it is impt to have your application done early so I want to shoot for Sept 1st but that leaves me in a bind for LOR's. Basically to get them from ortho guys I have to wait till after aug. I know my dept chair pretty well from having done research with him but have never scrubbed with him on a case and may or may not in march...I also know another attending here who I met at a conference I presented at but have also never scrubbed with him. I heard he is usually slow to warm up to students but the residents say that he has said good things about me to them. I would like to ask these two for recommendations but I may not get to work with them during my two week rotation in march. They are also are pretty notorious for taking awhile to get LOR's in. Should I wait till after august to ask for LOR's or should I ask after march? Also the person who knows me best and I think would write me a great letter is a chief resident this year. How much weight do you think that would carry in comparison to another attending letter from someone who knows me but not as well. Finally I have worked on two research projects with a fairly well known surgeon (author or some book chapters with some really big names...pres. of state orthopedic society) loosely affiliated with my home school. Even though he is an author of both studies I only met with him twice to help me with revisions and may meet with him again as we are finishing up the 2nd one...mostly I dealt with his secretary (she could write a great letter). He also saw me present, which along with his name is one of the main reasons why I think a letter from him would be good. I know he is extremely busy and I doubt I will get to scrub with him as he doesn't operate at my home hospital. Should I ask him for a letter and if so would the Chief's letter be better to send to programs who only want three or would his be the better to choose. Finally I am likely going to couples match (girlfriend doing peds) so I want to choose my aways extremely carefully. As I see it I only have aug, sept, oct to do them and Aug will need to be done here if I decide to wait till then to get LOR's. Do you know anything (good experiences, helped your application, required them) about aways at pitt, florida schools, oregon, colarado, new mexico, chicago schools, boston schools, or michigan. I know its early but basically in reading your posts about couples match and everything in gen...I'm a little nervous...Good luck on match day. Thanks for your thoughts.
Bone Jock
OSRR Intern
Posts: 17
(1/20/02 2:56:17 pm)
Reply LOR, and aways
1. Letter from a chief resident
Don't think that it's a good idea as one of your main letters. Some programs do require a letter from a chief resident though (Harvard is one of them), so it wouldn't hurt to get one from the chief while you can.
2. When to ask for LOR's:
I think that the best thing to do is request the LoR's in August when you do your rotations. You want very strong, very enthusiastic letters. After rotating for two weeks in march on ortho, your letters might be "luke-warm" at best. Don't forget to request letters from some of the attendings that you worked with during third year (especially g-surg). Some programs request a non-ortho letter. Also try and get one during medicine or peds or something (not psyche), because some programs want a non-surgical letter. I had already requested 3 letters before I had even set foot on ortho in july (1 peds, 1 g-surg, and one from the orthopod who I did research with as a first year-sort of like the one you talked about). When I did my july rotation at my home school I pulled down three VERY strong letters (chairman's letter and two other attendings). Those three letters and the one from my research preceptor were the ones that I sent to most programs. Many programs only requested 2-3 LoR's, but I sent everyone 4, because that 2 -3, in most cases, was only the minimum that the program wanted. And remember, applications can go in, and probably will go in before you've gotten all of your LoR's. If you're still not sure, request the letters in march. You'll have them if you need them, but you're not obligated to use them if you don't want to.
3. Rotations
The advice is still the same. Go to a place where you'd like to be, and where you think you'll be competitive. Again, it would suck to spend a month at a place and not get invited to interview. It happens. As long as those places HAVE a peds residency (or one in the vicinity), and your significant other has a pulse, I don't think you'll have a problem couples matching
.
Hopefully this helps
Eortho
OSRR Intern
Posts: 7
(1/20/02 5:50:56 pm)
Reply Re: MS3 ? about LOR, aways
I would get a letter from the chief resident, but only send it to those programs that require it (i.e. Harvard). For LOR's, orthopods generally only care about what other orthopods say. You need a letter from your chairman. I would suggest scheduling an appt. with your chairman and tell him of your intentions. I would concentrate on getting your letters in August and possibly one from an away rotation in Sept. if you can. You should also get a letter from a non-ortho person that can attest to your potential as a future surgeon (i.e. Gen Surg.). I sent four letters to all the programs I applied to (except those that only want three-ex. Temple): 3 being Ortho and 1 Gen. Surg.
As for aways, you should do them at places that you would like to go. Be careful about places that will not guarantee an interview even if you rotated (Harvard, HSS).
IamNikolas
OSRR Fellow
Posts: 127
(1/20/02 5:54:17 pm)
Reply re:
You're in pretty good shape.
As bone jock said, definitely get the chief letter before he leaves for his fellowship (in june?) because harvard requires it...I don't know of any other program that requires a chief letter.
You can get your application out in early september, but letters don't have to be in till late october. SO, you can do a home rotation in august, get the letters you want from them (seems like you have contacts there already and another month would be icing), and do an away in september and ask for a letter from that program. That should do it for you. You can do an away in october, but don't count on generating a letter from that rotation as it is too late. But if you get 2 (or 3) letters from your home school, and 2 (or 1) from the away school you should be fine. You want a total of 4. I would have to respectfully disagree with bone jock about 3rd year letters...it's definitely to your advantage to get all ortho letters. Last time I checked, orthopods could give a rat's @#$ what a pediatrician or ob/gyn or even a gen surgeon had to say. Although no one could fault you for getting those letters, and it will probably not make a difference if you're academically stellar, it's a good idea to get all ortho letters if you can, and it sounds like you definitely can.
I think it's a good idea to do at least one of your aways at a big name program so you can get a letter from a well-known attending. September would be the ideal time to do this in your situation. If you're strong academically, you may want to do both your aways at highly competitive programs. Don't sell yourself short.
Some programs only invite you for an interview if you've done an elective with them: Northwestern, Georgetown come to mind. There are many others i'm sure, i just can't think of them right now.
good luck!
Bone Jock
OSRR Intern
Posts: 18
(1/20/02 6:22:37 pm)
Reply Clarification for IAmNick
For the record: There ARE multiple programs out there that request letters from Non-Orthopaedic as well as Non-Surgical attendings. Anticipating this, I did get letters from a pediatrician, and a g-surgeon. Did I use them? Maybe for 3 or 4 programs, but it's better to have them just in case. Yes, you are right, the vast majority of programs want Ortho letters, but there are programs out there that want 1 "other" letter in addition to your 2 or 3 ortho letters. Again, it doesn't hurt to have letters sitting around that you will never lose. I downloaded 8 letters and only used 6. Better safe than sorry.
IamNikolas
OSRR Fellow
Posts: 128
(1/20/02 7:08:06 pm)
Reply re: bonejock
I see what you're saying. I was not aware of that, as places i applied to did not have that requirement.
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