By the way, thanks in advance to those of you who take the time out to reply.....

you may not get a whole lot of reponses to this one due to the fact that ortho is a pretty small community. i can honestly say that after interviewing at a crapload of programs, i didn't run into any malignant ones. there were ones that i would be happier at than others, but that is the purpose of a rank list.

that being said, UMKC sucks!

It's an anonymous board [for the most part] so I don't see why people should be afraid. besides, i got this idea from a derm board...they name names and the whole nine yards. this helps because those programs that have a bad rap or are inbreeding get exposed for what they are and they usually change...for the better.

if X university takes 4/5 of its own students, i'm going to save my money. if they don't like being known as such, well then they have the opportunity to turn over a new leaf. i've seen it done before.

another example, is UIC's residents aren't all there on interview day....you only meet a couple. maybe that's just the way it is, or maybe there's something to it.

First of all, what are you doing on a Derm board if you are interested in Ortho?

Second, maybe you should put out your definition of malignant. I doubt many would consider a program taking 4/5 of their own malignant.

I agree with BoneBlaster. I interveiwed at 18 places and I didn't come across any place that seemed terrible. There were places that I didn't like as much as others, but none that were unbearably maliignant. Although, I have heard nightmares about the Chair at UMKC as well.

I knew I'd be asked about the derm board...I was with a friend and she was looking at it...looking at zits, psoriasis and toe fungus is not my idea of a good time...power tools on the other hand....

by "malignant" I just meant it loosely as residents are unhappier than elsewhere. that UMKC thing helps, I didn't know that and it's something i can pay attention to when applying.

there's over 100 programs, all of which I'd be fortunate to be at and all of which I'd like to apply to increase my chances; but I know that's not practical. I'm trying to narrow this list down and "unhappiness relative to other programs" is one of several criteria.

I must agree with prior sentiments about UMKC. What a nightmare that interview day was. See previous posts for more details, but the chairman is not a nice person and someone that I felt I would be so miserable working for that I actually left it off my rank list. I would use caution if applying to this program -- I applied with little knowledge of the program and was offered an interview very early (it was my first interview offer) and so I jumped at the offer. Then I heard all these terrible things about the program, but the chairman makes a statement in the interview invite or confirmation or something that if you cancel your interview he will contact your dean and basically blackball you, so at that point I was stuck and had to go. All of the terrible things that people said about the chairman and the interview day were true and I couldn't wait for the day to end. THe only good thing that came from that day was that it was my first interview and thus a good "practice" and helped to get out the jitters.

Just had to share...

wow, what a nightmare...why am I only finding out about this now?

any other schools like that?

this has been discussed many times... do a search and you will find many opinions...

however, i disagree with you being so loose with your definition of malignant. Ortho is hard work. Can't get around it. Some use this as a definition (although i am not assuming this is yours). If you are being treated like a subhuman piece of s*&!... well that is different.

I can tell you some places that are not "malignant": Brown, NYU, CWRU, Penn, UVM, Stony Brook to name a few. I agree that i didn't come across any programs that i felt i would be abused... i just liked some over others.

my 2 cents...

do a search on the forum here for "malignant" and me (bonedoc) as the author for a post i had about UMKC when i interviewed there last year. I am from missouri and like kansas city, and it still was dead last on my list. The chairman just ruins your whole experience.