do a serch of this forum for 1 of 1,000,000,000,000,000 previous replies to this question.

or

know your anatomy, be a hard worker, don't complain, never be the first one to leave, and of course KNIBB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES

and of course KNIBB HIGH FOOTBALL RULES

At the risk of sounding like a totally clueless 3rd year student ... I know this topic has been covered in many prior posts, but there just doesn't seem to be any consistency in people's responses ... seems all so subjective. I'm really confused. I though it was work hard, be a team player, and SAN DIMAS high football rules. I don't even know where KNIBB is. Please help.

b

silly third year

Billy Madison : ...So you see, the puppy was the industry, in that they were both lost in the woods, and nobody, especially the little boy (society) knew where to find him, except that the puppy was a dog, but the industry my friends, that was a revolution. Knibb high football rules!

Principal : Mr madison, what you've just said, is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard, in no point in your rambling incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be concidered a rational thought, everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to that. You are awarded no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

I apologize for the vague question, so let me attempt to clarify...

Are there any skills or technical abilities or simple procedural know-hows (NOT knowledge base, anatomy, writing notes, being on time, being early, staying late, getting along with others, volunteering to do more work, taking on more patients, and the like which can be found at http://www.orthogate.com/index.php?name ... ight=#9633) that would be beneficial to learn early so that this can be used at other away rotations?

I would imagine knowing how to suture using various techniques and knots would be one as teaching this to students can be annoying for residents and generally slow things down. Are there any other such 'things' that any of the residents could share with us that we, as 4th years, should learn before coming to an away rotation?

I hope this clarifies my question. Thank you.

There really is no secret to being a good student. Just go there and do your thing. After one month, your real personality will be apparent and they will either like you or not like you. Obviously, avoid the things that make you look bad- being late, not knowing your anatomy, leaving early, making other students or residents look bad, being an a$$hole, being a know-it-all, being a brown-noser, being lazy, etc, etc. You will learn how to cast and splint and will get better at suturing, and this will help. You want to help the team when they want help, but not be so annoying that you are bothering people. And if the opportunity arises, go out for drinks with the residents if they ask you. Personally, I think the most annoying students are the ones that are eager to kiss a$$ to *try to make themselves look good*. Just go be yourself and do your thing, and don't be so anal.

Believe it or not, there actually are a few really lazy people who apply and do away rotations for ortho. Still, the majority are really good applicants.

As far as skills go, numchuk skills will really impress all residents and faculty.

You'll learn the skills you need in residency. Just don't make yourself look like an uncoordinated clutz and be the type of person people will want to train. If you try too hard, it can be a black mark against you, especially if you look like a kiss ass.

People are leaving out one big way to impress. That's simply being interested and asking questions. Looking like you're really enjoying yourself and like you have a true zest for learning can go a far way. It's not really something you could fake, but you better not have to.

I am an MS3 so this may not mean much, but I have found that the way to impress surgery residents is to work your ass off and show that you understand/want to work as hard as they do. They seem to hate nothing more than a "panzy" med student. So if you get in the trenches with them.....they seem to instantly respect you no matter what.

just my 2 cents. you are a student noone expects you to know how to do everything...they are just looking for the raw materials that can be trained.

First, learning important quotes from film masterpieces such as Billy Madison is critical. I mean this both seriously and in jest. There is a lot of banter about movie lines in the OR and it is always nice to be part of the conversation. I suggest knowing some Caddyshack, this is helpful with attendings and usually impresses them.

Second, learning splinting and suturing (instrument tie) at your home institution will allow you to be more helpful on your aways.

Third, there are lazy people and know it alls on aways. If you look interested, ask questions, and stick around the hospital you will be noticed.

Crackbone

P.S. That Veronica Vaughn is one nice piece of ass

P.S. That Veronica Vaughn is one nice piece of ass

Forgive me if I am wrong, it has been several years for me, but I believe it is one fine piece of ace...

As for the subject at hand...don't sweat developing your skills, work like a dog, don't be a suckup, show a genuine interest, and know your anatomy. If you can handle those four things, you will do fine. After that it is all about personality. Some people fit well with a program and some don't.

I would like to add that a working knowledge of classic rock and the great hair bands of the 80's can also be quite useful.

... I know from experience.

if we are getting super-technical, it's pronounced "aysh," like in the word 'facial'

but back to the original thread before i hijacked it:

if you think you are the only person nervous about making a good impression, i've got news for you: you're not alone.

like i said before, relax, be yourself, be helpful, ask INSIGHTFUL questions, do NOT make your residents look bad, be prepared (have your white coat pockets overflowing with 4x4s, ABDs, tape, trauma shears), do NOT be obsequious, know your anatomy, go out for drinks (but try not to get too drunk - bad form), don't schtup the help while you're there (unless, of course, you're encouraged to do so by your residents), and remember that shampoo is better, because it goes on first and cleans the hair.

if peeing your pants is cool, consider me miles davis

... I know from experience.

asl17...no you don't

Well, not me personally but a guy I know.

How to be a good student?

I USED to think that this was a simple question. Over the years we've had some rotators that just flat out suck. There are students out there who just don't get it. They never will. Your 2-3 months rotating on Ortho are probably the most important of your med school career. . . . .if you want to do Ortho. You have to drop your shoulder and go balls out for 2-3 months. Plain and simple. If you don't want to work you butt off, then do family practice. That's my take on it. The following are what I think makes a good med student:

1. Have passion. There are too many students just going thru the motions.
2. Show up early. Stay late.
3. Be yourself. Unless you're a weirdo, then be someone else. . . . .although you'll probably be exposed at some point.
4. If you rotate at a "hardcore" program, take as many calls as possible.
5. On call jump in there and get your hands dirty. I remember 2 types of med students. No. 1: The type that is so much help on a call night that I couldn't imagine getting thru the call night w/o them (although I do all the time). #2: The type that sits around with his/her thumb up his/her butt as I run frantically around the ED grabbing splinting supplies, the fluoro machinge, finger traps, reducing the BBFF and writing up the consult. Guess which one not to be. On call, once you find out where stuff is, go grab it. Hold the arm while he/she wraps and maybe you might get to do the next one. Start the freakin' consult w/o being asked. Don't know, so what. It's all about effort.
6. Post-op and pre-round on patients that you've operated on.
7. Read for the OR. You don't need to know the extended ilio-femoral approach to the pelvis, but you do need to know that the axillary nerve innervates the deltoid. Know anatomy, basic MSI pathophysiology and a rudimentary MSI/Neuro exam. Stuff you should've learned in med school.
8. Don't shine for the attending in the OR and then blow off the Ortho intern because "he's too low on the totem pole to impress."
9. In the OR help get the patient on/off the table. Get the foley in. Start writing the op note/post-op orders.
10. Carry a bag full of dressing change crap if this applies to your particular service.
11. Don't complain
12. Be humble. You're not one of the "boys" yet. . . . .don't act like you are.
13. Show respect for everyone from the janitors and nurses all the way up the chain to the top dawg.
14. Don't make other students/residents look bad. If a resident misses a question and you know it, don't jump in with the answer. Now if the attending/chief points at YOU and then asks, don't sandbag, you better answer the question. I've never gotten mad at a student for knowing something I didn't. I'm already in residency.


I think I hit all the key points. Basically, medical students are never tired or hungry, they show up early and stay late. They're always prepared. They never complain.

Long post, but we've had a few piss poor rotators and I needed to vent.

"Dang! You got shocks, pegs. Lucky! You ever take it off any sweet jumps?"

agree with the bonejock as usual. biggest thing is being able to understand when talking and asking questions is appropriate. at 5pm post call is not the time to ask me in-depth questions about the frykman versus the malone classification of distal radius fractures! just try to be yourself and be helpful. you will either fit with the program or you won't. as far as skills, i never expect students to have any technical skills (that is why you are going to train for the next 5 years). that being said, when i hand you the needle driver it's nice to see that you have some idea of what to do with it! good luck this season.

P.S. "Vote for Pedro."

I agree with everything Bone_Jock said, probably because when he was writing about all the good things that med students should do, all he had to do was think about was what I did when I was his student....haha j/k.

Seriously, I don't think you need to have specific technical skills as a med student, if you can sew, then that's good. If you can splint, maybe I'll let you do the next fracture. The main thing to do is all the little stuff that Bone_Jock mentioned, that's what the residents are gonna remember later. Now, if you're at a place where the residents have no say as to who gets in, the the main things might be if you sew well, and if your knowledge base is good enough to impress the attending in the OR, assumming that he/she even cares about you enough to ask you stuff. I think that for the most part, if you're a good student, then you're gonna do things right and you've been doing it right all along. It's pretty hard to just be able to turn it on and become a great student, after someone's just written down a couple pieces of advice.

Bone_Jock,

I think you stole your entire post from my autobiography! I kid, I kid. I totally agree with your post. When I was a resident I was always amazed by how many students would rotate through our services and just sleep-walk for the month or just have no concept of what to do to impress. I agree with all you said. My emphasis would be on knowing anatomy because that's all anyone will ever ask and EXPECT you to know, be affable pleasant and respectful to all, and take as much call as possible. The more face time you get, the better off you will be.

Personal story - I rotated at my program as a student, took about 10 nights of call during the month. When interviews came around, guess who the residents and a couple of the attendings were on the inerview committee: the people I had spent time with on call, and they remembered me. That is what I attribute to my matching. Good luck to all next year.

Bone Jock

Excellent! Concise and to the point.