Status: the top 10 US News institutions.

Pitt- interviews sent

Thanks. Also of note, interviews are still pending for:

Stanford
Carolinas
Joint Diseases (NYU)
UPenn
UW (next Monday, Nov 29)
San Diego

I have no idea why Hopkins is ranked #5... just saying

I have no idea why people even care about US news rank. This rank measures everything but quality of their residencies training... Most of the programs mentioned above offer poor operative experience. Amen.

No, instead we should rely on the anecdotal hearsay of experts like yourself.
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I interviewed at the majority of the programs listed below and completely agree with attendingpower. You will find that the US News rankings have very little correlation with the overall quality of the residency itself, and instead are largely based on research dollars.

If you are absolutely sure that you want to do nothing but academic medicine/research for the rest of your career, then using rankings such as these can be helpful. However, you will find that at most of these "big name" institutions, the operative experience is significantly less than at many other programs (especially during the R2 and R3 junior years). This is due to a number of different reasons, but one of the most prominent being the sheer number of attendings, fellows, upper level residents, and junior level residents that the cases are shared amongst with the majority and/or most interesting cases going to the surgeons at the top of the hierarchy. I saw firsthand how these "Top 10" programs stack their ORs 3-4+ deep with residents and attendings. It's not much fun operating when you are standing on a stool looking over a fellow's shoulder for most of your 2nd and or 3rd years, hence, you need to have a very strong interest in research/academics to be truly happy at one of these programs.

Every applicant is looking for something different in their ideal program. When making your rank list, you need to decide if you want to go to a very "academic" focused program where you will spend more time reading the literature and doing research vs. a more "operative" residency where you will oftentimes be one on one with an attending starting your second year. There are a few select programs where you have the "big name" academic institution AND a great operative experience, and you will find those are actually in the highest demand when it comes time for people to make their rank lists.

And for those of you thinking my statements may be due to a bias against the "top 10" for any other reasons than those stated above, I was ranked to match in 3 of the "top 6."

I think a cooler list would be those so called big name programs that have great operative experiences too. Could anyone list them out?

-Brown
-Campbell Clinic
-Case Western
-CMC
-Duke
-Iowa
-Vanderbilt
-UCSF
-Univ of Michigan
-Univ of Utah
-Univ of Washington

Again, this is all subjective but it is not based on research dollars alone (i.e. US News) and takes into account operative experience, research funding/opportunities, strong reputation within the ortho community, benefits, etc. I'm sure there are others, these are just the ones that come to mind.

I would agree that these programs are probably the premiere well rounded/complete package programs(although not as sure about Duke or U of W). I would also add WashU and NYU-HJD to the list. These are places where you will be comfortable doing general ortho coming out and at the same time, be able to get into very competitive fellowships and have a career in academics if you wish.

I wash highly dissapointed interviewing at some of the "top programs" and realizing that the name is great, but the actual training didnt seem to come close to the above listed programs. Just have to decide what is most important for you, name vs training.

For most of the aforementioned programs (at least the ones I was fortunate to visit), I feel like I have a pretty good handle on the quality of training that they provide. However, I am still having a very hard time placing Cleveland Clinic on the spectrum... I feel like I've heard every opinion from "residents need to utilize the skills lab to get sufficient hands-on training" to "the operative experience is second to none".

this is a fairly unbiased opinion, I was born and raised in a cleveland suburb, went to the east coast for college and medical school but always wanted to return to cleveland to practice, so i really wanted one of these programs to work, but they were not right for me. I dont think you need to get your experience in labs, they operate at the clinic, you travel all around cleveland and can be in the OR quite a bit, but I do not believe you get the experience and interaction with faculty that you get at some other institutions. To be honest I was a little disappointed with my experience with all the resources they have to offer but maybe my expectations were too high.

I do think if you chose to train in cleveland you will get great training, and a great fellowship. But, bottom line, I will do my fellowship at the clinic, but did not want to train there for residency.

- Go browns

you guys have got to be smoking crack if you believe that as a "resident" UW gives you good operative experience. they have a myriad of fellows and you will be 3 assist just about into your pgy-4 year. I didn't even apply to UW so I'm not trying to be a gunner and influence someone to rank them lower. lets just be honest about what type a program it is. you go there for the name and the great fellowship place, not necessarily the op experience.

I don't know anything about the other programs.

This is very similar to the list I came up with for programs that I felt were the most well balanced and offered the best in terms of operative experience.

Brown
Campbell Clinic
CMC
Rochester
Utah

Case Western and Vandy might also belong on this list as well but I did not get to see them personally nor do I know anyone that rotated there, but I have heard good things about both of those programs.