another worried MS 4
Unregistered User
(6/10/00 12:30:14 am)
Reply clinical grades, specifically SURGERY; away AI's
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i am finishing up 3rd year in the next week, and am totally committed to applying for orthopedics (even though i'd probably have a totally easy time getting into my own school's ophthalmology program). just how important is the 3rd year surgery grade on one's application? what about 3rd year clinical grades in general (as in comparison to step I scores and overall class rank)? i came out of the basic science years alright (within the top 15% of the class), survived step I with a 233, but i haven't been particularly pleased with my clinical grades (low 90's and high 80's). haven't received my surgery grade yet, but 90 may be out of reach. don't know exactly where i stand now in terms of class rank (probably top 20-25th %ile, hopefully), however, not too hopeful for AOA selection. i do have plenty of ortho research (none published yet) and one pseudo published ophthalmology paper.
i have 3 away clerkships, 4 weeks each, set up for 4th year at maricopa (phoenix), the san francisco community based program, and stanford (just because my wife will be starting her pedi residency there). btw, i am from a texas school.
ANY THOUGHTS??? ANY INPUT IS WELCOME AND APPRECIATED.
Kent
Unregistered User
(6/11/00 10:43:08 pm)
Reply A little polishing should do the trick
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You sound pretty solid. It's unfortunate that everybody thinks they have to be junior AOA and 240 minimum on Step I to make orthopaedics. Those things certainly don't hurt, but it's the total package you should be going for. If you get weeded out by some short-sighted program that only wants AOA and 240+ boards, then it's their loss and I say "piss on 'em". They'll fill their program with a bunch of arrogant jerks and be the poorer for it. Your step I is a good score, probably something like 85th percentile (a guess) and it sounds like your clinical record is fairly good, too. Keep your fingers crossed and you'll probably get senior AOA. Got orthopaedics research? Good! Just make sure it isn't that "gettin' articles at the library" crap that people claim as "research". If it's good enough to do, then it's good enough to write up. "Submitted for publication" looks a helluva lot better and "Accepted for publication" rocks! Even if you don't have it submitted by interview time, you can give the interviewers a copy of YOUR manuscript. If you don't know enough about the work to be able to write the manuscript either YOURSELF or substantially YOURSELF, then you don't know enough about the research to say "I've done research." I applaud your plan to do substantial (time wise) away rotations. But three of 'em? How can you have that many credits in orthopaedics? I'm assuming you've do (or will do) some at your own school, so don't try to do an orthopaedics residency while a medical student. Now's the time to expand your education and take rotations in related areas that'll help your orthopaedic career (things like radiology, emergency medicine, surgical ICU). I'd recommend doing just two four-weeker aways (at the SF program and Stanford) since it sound like you'd like to end up in SF with your wife. Why do an away at Maricopa? Do you want to go there? If you're set on ending up in SF, don't forget about UCSF. I guess if you could pull it off, UCSF could be the third four-week away (but you'd have 12 weeks in orthopaedics from just the aways). My guess is that you don't want to stay at your home program, but you've gotta do probably 6 weeks minimum to get some reference letters, especially a Chairman's Letter (9 or 12 weeks would be better, but you'll probably run up against some sort of credit limit). Word to the wise--the California schools are notorious about seemingly not interviewing anybody that's not from a California school. You've got a good reason to want to go to a California program and you're willing to do multiple aways, so maybe they'll cut you some slack. For the rest of us non-Californians...well, we didn't even get the benefit of a rejection e-mail. You simply never heard from them again! In this day and age of free electronic mass communication, to not even bother with a generic "you suck" e-mail is lame. Loma Linda, however, did send out rejection letters on impressive letterhead. So, polish up that application, write up and bone up on that orthopaedics research (nothing looks better than to be able to thoroughly discuss YOUR research and nothing looks worse that not knowing much about your supposed research). Try submitting an abstract of the work to a national meeting. Your Step I is a done deal and you made a good score. Your clinicals are good, too, so let the AOA thing happen (if it's gonna). Do the substantial aways in SF if that where you really want to go. Since it's a personal decision, i.e., be with wife (and you're from California's favorite state, Texas!), it probably wouldn't hurt to get chummy with the program directors at those three SF programs and let 'em know just exactly why you want (and need) to get into their residency and that you're willing to show your awesome stuff on an away rotation. Program directors fill their programs with good people that they are familiar with and good people who "fit" into that particular program. So make yourself THAT guy! Good luck!
Chief Resident
Unregistered User
(6/12/00 5:21:54 am)
Reply don't worry so much
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I dont think I would worry about this so much. Your numbers
are very competitive. Step I 233 is probably in the 90's %ile.
Kick butt on your sub I(s) and get good letters!!!(KEY)
Besides, your numbers are way better than my grades, lack
of AOA, and Step I/II 227. I had 11 interviews and am finishing
this year after getting a 91%'ile on the Ortho OITE this year....
It does work out....
Email me if you want my list of ways to do great on your sub I.
We made something up for our SubI's to clue people in....
Good luck,
doc_scott@yahoo.com
slk
Local user
(6/12/00 4:42:47 pm)
Reply Re: A little polishing should do the trick
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How exactly does presenting a project at a national meeting stack up? I have something that went to the AAOS in March as a poster, and was recently accepted to another. But getting my attending to get this manuscript proofread/submitted/etc is like pulling teeth. I always assumed that until it was submitted/accepted for publication, it really didn't mean much. Do the meetings mean anything? (It seemed like there were about 400,000 posters at the AAOS).
Thanks.
Kent
Unregistered User
(6/28/00 3:13:18 pm)
Reply Publications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'd agree that until it's submitted/accepted/published, it's not exactly earth-shaking, but just to have something prepared counts for something. Even if there are lots of posters at AAOS or AOSSM, it's something to put on the application, and you never know who just might see your poster. At miminum, it shows you've got a little more get up and go than the regular applicant. I had posters/oral presentations at both AAOS and AOSSM and got the manucript accepted to AJSM. In graduate school, I had a book chapter and other things published. Did I list these ortho-related things prominently? You bet! I also listed papers (non-reviewed) that I prepared during medical school and which won awards. I listed these, too (and all my interviewers got copies of the abstracts, chapter, papers, etc). Orthopaedics is becoming so research oriented that anything of substance that shows you've already jumped into research/writing/presenting will make you stand out. Don't be afraid to crow about your accomplishment (because the other guy/gal certainily will!).
=======================================================
Unregistered User
(6/10/00 12:30:14 am)
Reply clinical grades, specifically SURGERY; away AI's
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i am finishing up 3rd year in the next week, and am totally committed to applying for orthopedics (even though i'd probably have a totally easy time getting into my own school's ophthalmology program). just how important is the 3rd year surgery grade on one's application? what about 3rd year clinical grades in general (as in comparison to step I scores and overall class rank)? i came out of the basic science years alright (within the top 15% of the class), survived step I with a 233, but i haven't been particularly pleased with my clinical grades (low 90's and high 80's). haven't received my surgery grade yet, but 90 may be out of reach. don't know exactly where i stand now in terms of class rank (probably top 20-25th %ile, hopefully), however, not too hopeful for AOA selection. i do have plenty of ortho research (none published yet) and one pseudo published ophthalmology paper.
i have 3 away clerkships, 4 weeks each, set up for 4th year at maricopa (phoenix), the san francisco community based program, and stanford (just because my wife will be starting her pedi residency there). btw, i am from a texas school.
ANY THOUGHTS??? ANY INPUT IS WELCOME AND APPRECIATED.
Kent
Unregistered User
(6/11/00 10:43:08 pm)
Reply A little polishing should do the trick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You sound pretty solid. It's unfortunate that everybody thinks they have to be junior AOA and 240 minimum on Step I to make orthopaedics. Those things certainly don't hurt, but it's the total package you should be going for. If you get weeded out by some short-sighted program that only wants AOA and 240+ boards, then it's their loss and I say "piss on 'em". They'll fill their program with a bunch of arrogant jerks and be the poorer for it. Your step I is a good score, probably something like 85th percentile (a guess) and it sounds like your clinical record is fairly good, too. Keep your fingers crossed and you'll probably get senior AOA. Got orthopaedics research? Good! Just make sure it isn't that "gettin' articles at the library" crap that people claim as "research". If it's good enough to do, then it's good enough to write up. "Submitted for publication" looks a helluva lot better and "Accepted for publication" rocks! Even if you don't have it submitted by interview time, you can give the interviewers a copy of YOUR manuscript. If you don't know enough about the work to be able to write the manuscript either YOURSELF or substantially YOURSELF, then you don't know enough about the research to say "I've done research." I applaud your plan to do substantial (time wise) away rotations. But three of 'em? How can you have that many credits in orthopaedics? I'm assuming you've do (or will do) some at your own school, so don't try to do an orthopaedics residency while a medical student. Now's the time to expand your education and take rotations in related areas that'll help your orthopaedic career (things like radiology, emergency medicine, surgical ICU). I'd recommend doing just two four-weeker aways (at the SF program and Stanford) since it sound like you'd like to end up in SF with your wife. Why do an away at Maricopa? Do you want to go there? If you're set on ending up in SF, don't forget about UCSF. I guess if you could pull it off, UCSF could be the third four-week away (but you'd have 12 weeks in orthopaedics from just the aways). My guess is that you don't want to stay at your home program, but you've gotta do probably 6 weeks minimum to get some reference letters, especially a Chairman's Letter (9 or 12 weeks would be better, but you'll probably run up against some sort of credit limit). Word to the wise--the California schools are notorious about seemingly not interviewing anybody that's not from a California school. You've got a good reason to want to go to a California program and you're willing to do multiple aways, so maybe they'll cut you some slack. For the rest of us non-Californians...well, we didn't even get the benefit of a rejection e-mail. You simply never heard from them again! In this day and age of free electronic mass communication, to not even bother with a generic "you suck" e-mail is lame. Loma Linda, however, did send out rejection letters on impressive letterhead. So, polish up that application, write up and bone up on that orthopaedics research (nothing looks better than to be able to thoroughly discuss YOUR research and nothing looks worse that not knowing much about your supposed research). Try submitting an abstract of the work to a national meeting. Your Step I is a done deal and you made a good score. Your clinicals are good, too, so let the AOA thing happen (if it's gonna). Do the substantial aways in SF if that where you really want to go. Since it's a personal decision, i.e., be with wife (and you're from California's favorite state, Texas!), it probably wouldn't hurt to get chummy with the program directors at those three SF programs and let 'em know just exactly why you want (and need) to get into their residency and that you're willing to show your awesome stuff on an away rotation. Program directors fill their programs with good people that they are familiar with and good people who "fit" into that particular program. So make yourself THAT guy! Good luck!
Chief Resident
Unregistered User
(6/12/00 5:21:54 am)
Reply don't worry so much
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont think I would worry about this so much. Your numbers
are very competitive. Step I 233 is probably in the 90's %ile.
Kick butt on your sub I(s) and get good letters!!!(KEY)
Besides, your numbers are way better than my grades, lack
of AOA, and Step I/II 227. I had 11 interviews and am finishing
this year after getting a 91%'ile on the Ortho OITE this year....
It does work out....
Email me if you want my list of ways to do great on your sub I.
We made something up for our SubI's to clue people in....
Good luck,
doc_scott@yahoo.com
slk
Local user
(6/12/00 4:42:47 pm)
Reply Re: A little polishing should do the trick
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How exactly does presenting a project at a national meeting stack up? I have something that went to the AAOS in March as a poster, and was recently accepted to another. But getting my attending to get this manuscript proofread/submitted/etc is like pulling teeth. I always assumed that until it was submitted/accepted for publication, it really didn't mean much. Do the meetings mean anything? (It seemed like there were about 400,000 posters at the AAOS).
Thanks.
Kent
Unregistered User
(6/28/00 3:13:18 pm)
Reply Publications
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'd agree that until it's submitted/accepted/published, it's not exactly earth-shaking, but just to have something prepared counts for something. Even if there are lots of posters at AAOS or AOSSM, it's something to put on the application, and you never know who just might see your poster. At miminum, it shows you've got a little more get up and go than the regular applicant. I had posters/oral presentations at both AAOS and AOSSM and got the manucript accepted to AJSM. In graduate school, I had a book chapter and other things published. Did I list these ortho-related things prominently? You bet! I also listed papers (non-reviewed) that I prepared during medical school and which won awards. I listed these, too (and all my interviewers got copies of the abstracts, chapter, papers, etc). Orthopaedics is becoming so research oriented that anything of substance that shows you've already jumped into research/writing/presenting will make you stand out. Don't be afraid to crow about your accomplishment (because the other guy/gal certainily will!).
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