I heard the open spot was UCLA Harbor. Seeing what caliber applicants remained unmatched, that spot might end up being their best resident.

Was it a real spot? Did it actually get filled from the scramble?

I heard it got filled pretty quickly, which seems odd to me if it was a real spot.

Why would the one open ortho spot in the country NOT fill quickly?

I would assume they would want to look at all of their potential applicants and take the best one.

Its not a race.

They are the only spot!

Yeah, but the pick of the litter gets thinner by the minute in the scramble...not everybody is going to wait for that one spot to make up their mind and risk end up holding the bag. If you've decided to move on and get offered some, any spot, you take it asap...you don't tell some Gen Surg chairman "gee...I wish I could take the gen surg internship at UCSF but let me wait on lil UCLA Harbor to get back to me, and I'll get back to you." Really?!

When a spot goes unfilled, all the PD should care about finding somebody reliable who he knows will round out the class and get the job done. At that point, there's no need/place for paralysis by analysis. And obviously, finding one (still pretty daim) overqualified contender can be accomplished pretty quickly...such as in the first hour of the scramble.

ucla-harbor said during the interview that they only rank 15 people out of all those that they interview. i was surprised to hear this because it's not thought of as the most lucrative place to end up... if they only ranked 15 like they said, i can see why they'd end up with one spot unfilled.

Only 15?

That sucks. I was trying to use this as a gauge to where on my rank list I may have matched, as they were in the top half of my list.

ucla-harbor said during the interview that they only rank 15 people out of all those that they interview. i was surprised to hear this because it's not thought of as the most lucrative place to end up... if they only ranked 15 like they said, i can see why they'd end up with one spot unfilled.

If this is true, and they actually DO rank only 15 people, then it's absolutely well deserved!!!

okay so I scrambled for this spot.

I submitted my eras app to them 5 seconds after I got the notification.

I called, and finally got through, asked if there was anything else to do.. they said no, we're just accepting eras apps.

I heard nothing from them.. waited.. and at 3 called and called.. got through, was told they filled the spot.. checked my eras.. they never downloaded my application!!!

leads me to believe they just went down their non-ranked list or something.. and went from there.

totally not cool

i'm sorry to hear that. they probably went down the list of people they interviewed and found the highest ranked person who didn't match (i recall that they interviewed a lot of people). they probably figured that they at least got to meet that person instead of someone they never met. the whole thing is a bit of a gamble on their part... i didn't actually believe what i heard on interview day until today seeing what's happened.

it looks like a surprisingly large number of the top applicants this year didn't match for some reason. i really feel for you guys, because i heard that some places picked people based on factors that don't necessarily seem fair. for example, i heard through the grape vine that HSS took a couple of people that were basically connected but well below average applicants. i'm sure other places probably do this as well, which hurts the qualified folks that don't match. but best of luck to you guys. you've gotten this far, so you will definitely find whatever makes you happy in the end if you stick to what you've done so far.

well, what wiggs me out especially is that I sat down with my program director, and he told me the following in response to the question "why wasn't I ranked in the 100% going to match spots"

"We ranked you to match, within our normal match pool, but we didn't go that far down on our list."

me: Who was in those spots, and what can I do to get there?

PD: "Well, it was very highly qualified applicants with research CV's pages long, etc. etc."

Which basically meant they showed no preference to someone who was a student there and rotated, etc. which is bogus, considering the fact that many other places I know do! Like I remember FFu saying how "2 spots goto Pitt students, 2 spots to rotators, and the rest is whatever it is"... which is fair or whatever, but at the same time, not fair for those of us that have programs that don't do that


My program is a middle of the road program...

Was it just that rediculous of a year.. was I unlucky?.. is ortho getting even more competitive.. or are they just not screening apps as well because there is so many?

Will it be like this next year?? Who knows.. but clearly, be wise to choose a place that is loyal to rotators or whatever you can do.. because clearly, in my case.. they weren't.

UGH! yeay! to start a research year. At least I'll get some pubs out of it, etc.

harbor had an open spot and from what i've heard from people in their program, they talked it over with the current residents and took one of the g-surg prelims.

Well hearing the fact that Harbor was left with an open space absolutly enrages me. I rotated there this past fall and I didn't even get an interview. The place is a true shit hole, but a great way to get back to Los Angeles. I know the prelim they took. He is a great guy, and a DO

it looks like a surprisingly large number of the top applicants this year didn't match for some reason. i really feel for you guys, because i heard that some places picked people based on factors that don't necessarily seem fair. for example, i heard through the grape vine that HSS took a couple of people that were basically connected but well below average applicants. i'm sure other places probably do this as well, which hurts the qualified folks that don't match.

I don't necessarily disagree, but who's to say that the people who matched aren't as qualified...based on what? A lower Step 1 score? Less interview offers? No AOA? No offense to anybody in particular but from following some threads on this board, it seems like some people fluff themselves based on "measurables" which are not meant to measure potential as an orthopaedic resident at all. I've never been to HSS, but they seem to be doing something right...

Well hearing the fact that Harbor was left with an open space absolutly enrages me. I rotated there this past fall and I didn't even get an interview. The place is a true sh#& hole, but a great way to get back to Los Angeles. I know the prelim they took. He is a great guy, and a DO

I don't know...maybe they picked up on your ambivalence towards their place? If they knew what they had in their redshirt DO intern and they liked him better than all but 15 people they interviewed, not matching a spot probably wasn't a big deal to them. Scouting applicants is an inexact science, so I wouldn't blame them for going with a proven commodity over a bunch of guys who see their program as a fallback option/consolation prize.

I don't necessarily disagree, but who's to say that the people who matched aren't as qualified...based on what? A lower Step 1 score? Less interview offers? No AOA? No offense to anybody in particular but from following some threads on this board, it seems like some people fluff themselves based on "measurables" which are not meant to measure potential as an orthopaedic resident at all. I've never been to HSS, but they seem to be doing something right...

THANK YOU!! I totally understand everyone's emotions getting the best of them upon receiving bad news at this most critical juncture of our careers. However I don't think the anger should be misplaced at people who matched. Its not fair to them nor to the programs that took them. If you have to be angry at someone, be angry at the ACGME and the ortho RRC specifically for not allowing more spots at programs. Most programs that I know have more than enough volume and would LOVE to have more help in the form of residents, but for some reason (most likely to keep the demand of attending surgeons high and therefore pushing salaries higher) they do not grow the number of residency spots. In the last 5 years there have been only 2 new programs, one of which already had a residency that the ACGME shut down and they re-opened it, the other was Marshall University. I believe the Banner program is a 3rd, however I'm not sure about the details surrounding that program. From last year to this year the number of spots only increased by 5. So interpret those facts as you will.

But if you need to put down those that matched in order to feel good about yourself, well, that shows a lot about your character...

Been wanted to ask this since monday but waited a few days. The people who are not matching on the seem to have numbers, research etc well that would place them at the top of the application pool for the most part. What is the reason(s) they truly dont match. Is it they interview poorly, maybe coming across cocky and arrogant which i understand(a little bit) with the paper applications some have presented on this site. Do they simply not apply to enough programs and just have hopes for places like HSS, NYU, Mayo, Pitt etc.

Not meaning to take a shot at anyone who didnt match because i cant imagine how you feel right now. Just curious to know what some people think. thanks

Been wanted to ask this since monday but waited a few days. The people who are not matching on the seem to have numbers, research etc well that would place them at the top of the application pool for the most part. What is the reason(s) they truly dont match. Is it they interview poorly, maybe coming across cocky and arrogant which i understand(a little bit) with the paper applications some have presented on this site. Do they simply not apply to enough programs and just have hopes for places like HSS, NYU, Mayo, Pitt etc.

Not meaning to take a shot at anyone who didnt match because i cant imagine how you feel right now. Just curious to know what some people think. thanks

You're not going to find an answer to this question, because there is none. In highly sought after specialties, sometimes highly qualified people get left out. It's just the way it is.

I don't necessarily disagree, but who's to say that the people who matched aren't as qualified...based on what? A lower Step 1 score? Less interview offers? No AOA? No offense to anybody in particular but from following some threads on this board, it seems like some people fluff themselves based on "measurables" which are not meant to measure potential as an orthopaedic resident at all. I've never been to HSS, but they seem to be doing something right...

THANK YOU!! I totally understand everyone's emotions getting the best of them upon receiving bad news at this most critical juncture of our careers. However I don't think the anger should be misplaced at people who matched. Its not fair to them nor to the programs that took them. If you have to be angry at someone, be angry at the ACGME and the ortho RRC specifically for not allowing more spots at programs. Most programs that I know have more than enough volume and would LOVE to have more help in the form of residents, but for some reason (most likely to keep the demand of attending surgeons high and therefore pushing salaries higher) they do not grow the number of residency spots. In the last 5 years there have been only 2 new programs, one of which already had a residency that the ACGME shut down and they re-opened it, the other was Marshall University. I believe the Banner program is a 3rd, however I'm not sure about the details surrounding that program. From last year to this year the number of spots only increased by 5. So interpret those facts as you will.

But if you need to put down those that matched in order to feel good about yourself, well, that shows a lot about your character...

Very well said KneeMD and ArthroscopicSpine above. The measurable qualifiers get way too much credit. I doubt by the end of the an individuals residency people look back to Scores, AOA status etc and say 'I knew he would be great.' HSS is doing awesome and the 'less qualified' individuals they select possess intangibles that they are good at picking up. I'm sure there are kick ass residents around the country that did not have these things, and in the end their actual performance is all that matters. It sucks not to match, but congratulate those that may be your future colleagues if things work well for you the second time around.

all of the above are all valid points.

I keep being told that I had a strong application, etc. etc. and that I fell through the cracks, or this just happens. who knows.

I keep getting told "you are someone who will do well in orthopaedics.. you will be an orthopod.. just not this year." I can't tell you how terrible that sounds to me

Beyond my application, I would like to think that there was something else that I can fix. Not enough research? Could have had a few more pre-clinical honors? Maybe I was a jerk, maybe I wasn't.. who knows. I tried my very best not to be anything of the like on my interviews, but you never know. I ranked 19 places still to no avail. did I slip on my interviews that many times???

All I know is that I'm broken hearted just like the other folks. This is something I have wanted to do since I was a child.. and now I can't have it. I worked hard.. and I had all of the numbers, the pieces of the puzzle.. and I still didn't match.

Now..

I'm sitting here in my bed, unshaven, feeling *worthless* a complete loser.... reading a book with nothing to do.. my friends are all out celebrating. I had to cancel my trip to vegas.. it sucks. and it's true, it is probably one of the worst feelings you can ever have.

But I have hope. I've got a new mentor. My home program was useless in this respect, and now I think I have someone to goto bat for me. Maybe I'll wind up in their program, maybe I won't.. I don't know.

I'm buckling down, trying to hammer out the research projects I will do, etc. etc. But this takes time.. and in the shuffle, I still feel like a piece of junk rotting on a log.

*sigh* who knows.. maybe next year i'll wind up at a better place than I would have (but really didn't) this year.

good luck to all, and i hope you all matched and are happy. for those that didn't, or those that are reading this hoping to match next year.. go all out.. do everything you can, pull as many strings.. do what you must.. because everyone else is!

Don't get left behind. Don't fall through the cracks like I did.