UCSF and (I think) U Wisconsin. There may be others.

Duke did last year

Orlando Health requires Step II to be considered for an interview, so I guess that you can say that we also require it to match.

Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...

Most ridiculous thing I've ever heard...

I don't know... I suppose you could say it's ridiculous, but these programs are always looking for ways to filter through applications. Personally, I think it says something about somebody if they do well on Step 1 and choose not to rest on those laurels, but take Step 2 early... says that much more if they actually do well.

At a few interviews, I was told that when they see an applicant take Step 2 early after doing very well on Step 1, it makes them question that applicant's judgment. I just think it's a stupid thing for programs to do.

What would be smarter is to have applicants fill out a a secondary form stating their reasons for wanting to match at that program. You might say that it takes a lot of time that the selection committee doesn't have to read them all. However, I think that you could screen based off of who does and doesn't send in the secondary form. I know that the extra amount of work required by some programs caused me to not apply there in the first place if I wasn't serious about it.

Then, after you screen out the less serious applicants, you can compare them based off of everything else. That's just an example, but screening based off of Step 2 is arbitrary and retarded.

"screening based off of Step 2 is arbitrary and retarded"

Really? By that rationale, is Step 1 also arbitrary and retarded? We don't use Step 2 to lessen the number of applications that we review. We would prefer to have all of the cards on the table before interviewing and ranking a person. Believe it or not, there are quite a few students that rock Step 1 and fail or barely pass Step 2. This is our requirement. You are not required to apply to our program. Good luck this year with the match.

screening by either step 1 or step 2 is standard practice...regardless of how ridiculous it may be.

And if you were to pick one to screen by, step 2 makes much more sense becaues it's more clinically focused.

Either way, they use them both to project how you will do on the OITE or the orthopaedic boards, so wanting people who will do well on these tests is not arbitrary. The RRC tends to frown on programs who have residents that fail the OITE and the boards. and no body likes being frowned at.

I do agree that a secondary application would help possibly, however, with the number of students applying to ortho they would be receiving upwards of 500 secondary applications? Unfortunately, filtering out by objective means like step 1/2 works.

I say, if you think you're a rockstar, and you did well on step 1 and want to get step 2 out of the way, do it. If a program is going to question your judgment after you rock step 1 and do better on step 2, then it's not meant to be.

Also, I've heard from programs that they are looking at step 2 more critically because the step 1 scores are going up...can't confirm this but it's just a thought

I don't think that step I scores are going up because it is easier.. i think it's a matter of the character of the orthopaedic resident candidate that is changing..

The difference is that everyone takes Step 1 by the time they apply. Usually (in ortho) only the applicants who didn't do that great on Step 1 are the ones that take Step 2 early. Sure, there are some that take it early to get it over with, but by only interviewing applicants that took Step 2 early, you are weeding out a lot of good potential. You're reducing the amount of applications you have to look at, but you might as well be drawing names out of a hat. I'm sure there are a lot of people who have great Step 1 and Step 2 scores that aren't even considered by those programs because they took Step 2 later in the year.

Maybe those programs are thinking that the applicants who are very interested in them will take Step 2 early, even if the only reason is to be considered for an interview by that program. That's fair, but they don't even announce that they use this criteria until you interview there.

I'm sure it blows looking at 500 applications, but I think a secondary app makes more sense than only interviewing people who took Step 2 early. Like I was saying, you don't even have to read the secondary apps (I'm sure a lot of these programs don't). You just interview the people who took the time to fill one out because you know they're serious about applying to you program.

We may weed out "good potential", but we still have a great deal of extremely well qualified candidates to review that have completed the steps.

I don't know what you mean about not announcing the criteria. From our website in Orlando: "The ERAS application is considered complete when the personal statement, USMLE Step I and II scores, three letters of recommendation, medical school transcripts and Dean's Letter have been received."

Was told this requirement often is institutional, not departmental, and is the trend nationally. Reason is that institutions have had had residents that didn't pass step 2, matched, and then couldn't get licensed (though almost certainly not ortho).

Hey Boneblaster,
Not sure if you still check these boards, but wondering if you or anyone else could tell me whether that requirement for "step 2 scores" refers to just CK or both CS and CK. I've seen this on a few programs websites and I'm concerned because although I passed CK months ago, I will not be taking CS until December.

Thanks