Chicago Programs and Scores

The figures you always hear thrown around are 220 or 230. I am guessing that NW and U of C may lean more toward 230. As far as being accepted, UIC is the only program that I have ever seen post their numbers. Last year the average step 1 was 237 there. UIC is arguably the worst program in Chicago so you can only speculate on their motivation for posting these numbers. NW rarely takes non-rotators so I would suggest going there if you are interested and working your ass off even if your #s aren't where you would like them to be. I've heard from several who matched this year, that if you are over 240 you should feel comfortable rotating and applying at any program in the country. :pimp:

If you are thinking about doing rotations in Chicago, you should know a little about each program and decide where you think you fit in best. FixFx was right about UIC being arguably the worst program but the applicants still have very solid board scores. Board scores are difficult to gage where to rotate. For example...NU seems to prefer guys who are your prototypical orthopod. The residents have a large input as to who they rank. Rush tends to prefer guys who are inclined to do research. They are, by far, the most published program in the city. I would rank them in the following order - 1. Rush, 2. NU, 3. Loyola, 4. U of C, and 5. UIC.

I rotated at Loyola, I had 235 step 1 and the chair told me that my board scores were good. That is all the data I have but I hope it is helpful.

If you want to live in chicago I suggest rotating at more than one program there. Chicago is the most happenin' city in the midwest and there are tons of students that want to live there for residency. Even with good numbers and a good rotation you could easily not make it at places with such stellar applicant pools. If you are dead set on chicago, then double or triple up to improve your chances.

This is advice that one of the 4th years from my school gave me...NU does not automatically offer an interview to all rotaters. As said above, they like the typical ortho candidate (big name school, big score, etc) so evaluate yourself well and pick a place where you have a good chance.

Thanks for the info, I appreciate it.


Capeman :roll smile:

Can anyone comment on why UIC is "arguably the worst program in Chicago"??

NW, Rush, Loyola and U of C are all regarded as being good ortho programs, and to say that UIC is the worst, is not saying that it is necessarily bad.

UIC allows you to operate early and often, but it is not looked at as favorably as the other four, but I am not sure why. The only thing that strikes me as a possible reason is that the ortho offices are in a 100+ year-old building, and are frankly a little dingy. A new academic building will open next summer, along with a new gym across the street.

I rotated there and I would not be displeased to match there. The residents all have a good time and have lots of autonomy.

I'll try at answering the UIC question. This is where I matched. For a little background, I had stellar Step 1&2, AOA, moderate ortho research without publications, and did not rotate anywhere in Chicago.

The UIC ortho experience is one of mixed blessings. Compared to the highly academic places that I rotated at as a med student, there is definately less emphasis on academics (significantly less research - but it is not non-existant, less formal lecture time, and fewer huge-name/reputation attendings). Additionally, unlike some of the high-powered programs, UIC provides somewhat fewer benefits (only $600 per year for books/conferences/travel which only starts from the 2nd year). The strongest feature, however, is that there is an extremely strong operative experience EARLY in the residency. The seniors are extremely comfortable with the bread & butter ortho cases. I think tumor & foot/ankle are the weaknesses. If you are a self-motivated learner and don't mind taking time at home to read, you can definately overcome the formal lecture deficiency and come out a well-rounded super-stud orthopod. The other programs in chicago are a bit more academic but I think the operative experience is as good if not better at UIC than any other ortho program. UIC gives autonomy to residents early. At some of the more academic programs where the attendings also tend to have more
"private" patients, residents tend to become observers with minimal participation. Already, a senior has walked me thru doing a knee scope during my anesthesia rotation when I was bored and just happended to walk into the ortho OR. All this being said, I think that 2-3 years out of residency, most hard-working orthopods are probably at an equal level no matter what program they came from (just like the people that match into ortho tend to be good no matter what med school they come from).

Additionally, there are NO fellows at UIC so residents get all the good cases. Most of the seniors seem to be going into a variety of fellowships which they seem to be happy with. The trauma, total joint, hand, sports, shoulder/elbow experience seems to be quite excellent in my limited experience. Finally, living in Chicago is great - definately no need to elaborate on the city further. As in the other programs, the relationship between residents themselves and with faculty is great and rather informal (unlike some of the bigger name programs). Our chairman takes our side with most clashes with other departments and is definately our ally. If there any any more specific questions, just post 'em and I'll do my best to answer them. Best of luck with the applications process...ortho is the best surgical specialty out there and matching is really a win-win situation no matter where you go.

Solid info on UIC. As for NWU, does anyone have the data on matched non-rotators there? Do they interview many unknowns?

I rotated at NU earlier this summer. As previously mentioned in this thread, NU takes very few non-rotators. Of the 9 residents, usually only 2-3 did not rotate. From previous posts and from what I've heard, they usually interview maybe aroud 60 people, and maybe 15 did not rotate, although that number may be higher this year because I've heard that there were fewer rotators (just rumor though, can't verify because I did my rotation early). As far as data for matched rotators, I'm not sure, but I would assume that there has to be something in their applications that distinguishes them from the rest of the pack, since like other people have mentioned, Chicago is a very poplular place and NU is one of the top programs in the city.

BTW, CollesFx, did you go to med school in or around Chicago? Do we have a mutual friend in common who is going into Derm?

I went to medical school at NU and I believe that the above assessment of NU is fairly accurate. They don't mind lower board scores in someone who "fits in well". I had heard some complaints that their higher profile sports attendings didn't turn cases to residents very much--but overall I think it is a very good program. Definately one of the top 2 or 3 in the city. I think the program at Rush is very high powered with high profile doctors in every field of ortho and the residents there seem to get a lot of operative experience with cutting edge technology.
Loyola is a bit trauma heavy but still good volume and good operative experience.
I would agree with collesfx on UIC--not much of the glitz but reasonable training. Probably not the best program in Chicago (probably is the weakest of the 5).
Don't know much about U of C--but they seem to have some problems due to the fact that they are not their own department and they are still a division of General Surgery. They don't control their own destiney and they have lost quite a few of their doctors recently.