Damn computer, we'll try this again..What are my chances ?

To all current 3rd years out there:

Take a deep breath and RELAX!!! You all have plenty of time; just enjoy things right now!

As far as you go, you can pretty much write your own ticket. Step I- 260s, Honors, research or not will get you more interviews than you know what to do with. Don't take Step II until after you interview. No one asked about mine, and I took it in July.

Regarding Away rotations: Do as many as you can!!! This one thing alone will set you apart from every other applicant who didn't rotate there and you get a chance to see if you'd really be happy there. Most places will automatically give you an interview if you rotate there and don't screw up. I recommend doing aways in Sept, Oct, Nov and especially Dec. In July and August the programs are dealing with the new interns and won't have much time for you. Plus, just think how many students will come after you if you do one early. The only exception is if you need LORs, then do one early. I did an away in Dec and it was great b/c I was the only student and the last guy to rotate so they easily remembered me for better or for worse when I interviewed.

Advice (Finished interviewing): High-tier programs are great if you want to be a big time academic person. The saying is that you start with a five foot retractor and they take a foot off each year!!! Be sure you know what you want out of a program and in your education: size, # of residents, location, stability, staff, OR and clinic time, fellows, and RESIDENT COMRADERIE. I would say 95% of programs are great and 5% questionable. No matter where you go, you still come out being board eligible. Fellowships are out there to be had and really isn't too much of an issue b/c someone on staff knows someone else and so on. It's a small world. Each program is unique and it really boils down to where you'll fit in the most and what you want out of a program!

To all the current third years who will start posting on this site- this post is an example of what not to do. Upper 260s, research, all honors, hooked up with Rockwood, dated Netter's sister- will I match. Worse, will I match at an upper tier program. Some like to post their stats just to stroke their own ego. Don't be this guy, please.

Thanks for the advice/info, I guess my next question would be what effect the program you choose has on fellowships, and/or earning power once you get out. I really doubt I'll want to go into academic, unless I decide I want to try to be a department chair or something (probably unlikely). I guess what I'd like to know if I had a crystal ball then is are you going to make alot more money if you got to the "number one" program out there (provided you fit in there and could be happy as you said) vs. anywhere else you end up going ?
Not that money is everything, but if you could make 50% more in private practice or whatever by being in a different (ie "better") residency program, that would certainly be worth at least considering wouldn't it ??

Oh yeah, fibula freak, loosen up dude.
It was a legitmate question, the only two "ego stroking" things I said were my boards score and my grades (of which I don't have AOA at this time, and am not guaranteed of getting it). My point was to point out my weaknesses, b/c that's what I'm more worried about, like not having any research and no sure letters yet. I'm sorry if you don't like what you got on step one, but keep your own issues to yourself. I really doubt I have the highest step one score on here, and I really don't get any ego stroke from what I got anyway, I busted my ass to do well and probably if alot of people worked as hard as I did they could have scored that too. Everyone else on here can post their info and people will answer there questions without you jumping on them, why do I get your misguided wrath ? Maybe you should either be helpful like most the people on this site or keep your mouth shut. I just wanted to know where I stood, b/c I had no clue (still don't have really) .
Now, anybody know why it says I'm an ortho surgeon next to my name ?? I put med student on my information ???

What in the H#LL is a "low/middle second tier" school anyway? You guys with your "Tiers"......

you sound like a lower/middle/lower third/second upper/middle tier candidate
:sick:

Beats the h$%& out of me, I have no idea where people/publications get these "tier" rankings, I'm just telling you guys what I know, or think I know.
As for what kind of candidate I am, I have no idea, and while most people in here seem to be very helpful a few seem to be pretty rude. Which one are you ?
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

Ortho2be10:

In all seriousness, to answer your questions

1. Where you attend residency has little to nothing to do with your future income potential. That will depend totally on how busy your practice is, your reimbursement, your malpractice rates, etc etc. CPT codes have no spot for residency location
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
.... Some of the most financially successful surgeons I know come from "lower tier" (read: private) programs. In fact, if the truth were known (and I am just speculating) there is probably loose trend toward graduates of "higher tier" (read: academic/research) programs making lower salaries since graduates of these programs (not all certainly) tend to be more likely to pursue academic orthopaedics - which, in general, pays less than the private world.

2. Like the numerous posts such as this one in the past - you WILL match if:
a: you apply to enough places
b: you interview well (i.e. you are not a "tool")

3. The best piece of advice that you can be given is NOT to be @#$%y or assuming, regardless of grades/scores on both aways and interviews because this will get you NOWHERE fast. Be humble and appreciative toward staff/residents/and peers and let your numbers speak for themselves.

Thanks, I sent you a message or whatever, I don't know how to get on the chat you're speaking of. I don't want to p@#$ anybody off, nor was I trying to be @#$%y, I just thought it was okay to just list your strengths and weaknesses and let you wise sages tell us where we're at. Guess somebody didn't think that was appropriate, my apologies if someone took me as being less than humble, it was far from my intention...

Apparently you can't say c-o-c-k-y without it getting censored lol
And why does it still call me a surgeon, I should be a newbie underneath my name, this is giving me a complex
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

Sh!!ty Message Board program. We are planning an upgrade in a few months. Probably after the match.

I am not trying to be smart with this reply, but the only thing that you need to worry about is your attitude. The worst thing you can do on your interviews is appear @#$%y or conceited, and whether you meant to or not that is the way your post came across. In fact, I was at an interview the other day and the residents were talking about a guy that had come through and appeared slightly arrogant which had eliminated him immediately regardless of his numbers. Take it for what it is worth and good luck to you.

Otherwise I agree with the guys above. The more aways the better and delay Step II until later.

I usually don't post but this guy is forcing me to post twice. Listen bud, I really think you're in trouble. If your interview skills are anywhere close to the way your personality comes across on these posts, then you have some serious problems. Is it just me or is this a little ridiculous?

First: What is arrogant about asking a question related to financial matters ?
I wasn't saying I personally would get into "the top program", my point was that if you had a choice between "the best program in the world" or one that was good but not as highly regarded, wouldn't it make more sense to take the higher one ? NOT stating that I personally can go wherever I want or whatever, but replying to the earlier post that if you don't want to do academics, there's no reason to worry about the prestige of a program.
Second: The department chair comment was a joke, b/c I really don't see myself wanting to do academics unless h$%& froze over, or I became a department chair. Even if I wasn't kidding, there is nothing arrogant about your career goal/reason for wanting to go into academics being to get into administration. A lot of people don't go into academics purely to teach, and there's nothing arrogant about wanting to be a decision maker, which I don't want to do I"m just making a point.
Maybe it's because of the difficulty in communicating without non-verbal cues, but Fibula Face seems to have taken the posts completely differently than other people in the room. If you knew me, you'd know the last thing an interviewer would ever get from me is the impression that I'm arrogant, if anything they'd probably think I was too shy or quiet.
Don't mistake how I would interview or interact with collegues to be the same tone I use on a message board with a guy who's obviously trying to be an antagonist
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

ortho2be10, i have to agree with fibulaface as well. I really hope you are not thinking of going into ortho because of the money. And by the way, which Missouri school do you go to?

Why is it that nobody can talk about the obvious ?? Money is part of our lives, and it's part of our careers. Just because I asked a question about financial matter doesn't mean I"m obsessed with money (God knows there are a TON of easier ways to make equal or more money with less work, either in medicine or in some other field). If I'd asked about teaching, nobody would have accused me of being obsessed with being a professor. Since when is it such a horrible thing to want to make sure you're family and future are secure after having gone through 13plus years of post high school education (and not exactly sitting on your ass any of those years either) ?
If you all are going to pretend that money has no bearing on your future decisions, you're either lying or really really really naive (or maybe just independently wealthy). I"m going into ortho b/c it's what interests me, and what I want to do with my life, but if I can make 10 grand a year or 100 K, I think I, like everyone else in the room, would take the latter.
I never said I went to school in MO either, just that I'm from there
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

If you want to make money in ortho, don't worry about what program you match. Just match and then go practice in a rural area where you are the only guy in town.

As for who will make more money between someone matching at HSS verse someone matching at a small community program in PA, most likely the guy matching in PA. I have a feeling that the majority of the guys going through HSS go into academics where the money isn't great. If they both go into private practice, again, it will depend on where they practice and what type of practice they have, but they probably have the same earning potential.

fibulaface, it's not just you. i also try to keep my posts to minimum, and i generally avoid the "debate" posts. however, i just couldn't pass this up...

Ortho2Be10: "my point was that if you had a choice between "the best program in the world" or one that was good but not as highly regarded, wouldn't it make more sense to take the higher one ?"

absolutely not. that is a gross oversimplification. there are literally dozens of other factors that should play into a residency desicion: academic vs community, family friendly vs single-guy program, location, strengths and weaknesses, didactics, the type of environment in which you learn best, etc. if some arbitrary ranking is what's most important to you, fine. but if it's the ONLY factor, then, yes, it does come across as arrogant, and, more importantly, you are at risk for a very unhappy five years.

whew, off the soap box. a little self-reflection, though...anybody else out there think that this could just be somebody having a little fun with people? don't know if that's the case, but i sure hope so.
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

That was my point, all other issues being equal, wouldn't the "better" program be actually better. Obviously issue number one is could you be there for 5 years without killing someone (or apparently someone killing you since I seem to have morphed into such an a-hole overnight, at least on this board). I've never stated that I knew the answer to any of these QUESTIONS either, that's why they were questions. The whole point of my post was to get info from those who have all the wisdom. Can't we all just get along ???
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

i have officially been sucked in now!

obviously you have missed the entire message of the people posting thus far. "better" is so subjective that it can't possibly be the same from one person to the next. better for some is to learn by doing. better for others is to be around experts and learn by seeing. obviously, most of us will become competant surgeons with either approach. if you want to be a chairman someday "better" means going to the most academically high-powered place you can see yourself spending 5 years at.

good point, I guess by "better" I meant with respect to prestige, or rankings, something like that. Anyway, I've gotten quite a bit of feedback (more than I wanted maybe), so I don't think I'm going to drag this thing out any longer, thanks to those who helped, and thanks to those who didn't.