bonepain
Registered User
Posts: 5
(3/2/01 4:13:15 pm)
Reply
timeline question
Sorry, but I have a ton of question, and this forum is a great source of info.
What is the typical timeline for the upcoming ortho app process for us ms3s? Specifically....
I assume it is never too soon to start looking at different program broshures and deciding where to
apply etc.
When should I start getting my app together (ie. asking for rec letters, writing the PS, etc.)???
When do most people get their ERAS app stuff completed??
When do interviews start and end?? I am particularly interested in this question since I was hoping to
take October and November off to finish my apps and take a vacation. Is this possible?
When do you have to turn in a match list?
I am just interested in the general timeline of events so that I can get an idea of what is coming up this
year in my head. Thanks,
BP
crazy joe davola
Registered User
Posts: 18
(3/2/01 8:04:40 pm)
Reply
timeline question
You're right. It's never too early to begin investigating programs and writing them letters to express
interest. These early communications with a program probably won't count for squat politically, but you
can never be too ahead of the game once you decide to pursue orthopaedics. I'd become as anal about it
as you can stand - organize the information you have (or at least throw it all in the same box). Your
most accurate source of information about a program will come from residents at those programs and
from students at your school who just recently matched.
I would go as far as to suggest calling/writing residents at programs you're interested in. Use the
program coordinator/secretary person as an initial contact - she can give you either a list of residents or
suggest a particular resident who's doing a research month or something.
Now is definitely the time to investigate externships/away rotations - start getting these set up once you
decide on locations.
Application materials:
You should be ready to write your PS if you are confident about ortho as a career. I wrote mine in late
July. I found that I had way too much stuff to talk about, instead of too little. You could start looking
into the application itself, which is on the ERAS web site, in order to know what info you'll need to include
from your CV. Since this year was the first entirely online ERAS year, I'm not sure when you can start
filling out your application. There should be a specific date on which programs begin accepting
applications (downloading them) - I think this was in September of 2000 for us.
One important thing to remember is that you don't want to be in the midst of the most important parts
of your application while you are away doing rotations. This applies particularly strongly to letters of
recommendation. I rotated at my home program in August and asked for rec letters as soon as I left an
attending's service (usually on my last day with that doc). Of course if a staff orthopaedic surgeon
already knows you, you could ask now. Typically, asking for letters involves walking a fine line between
making sure you don't get hosed while not being overbearing/annoying during the follow-up process.
I set a deadline for myself to be finished with my application by August 1st (the parts I had control of),
but this was pushed back in part because downloading by the programs was delayed until late
September.
Regarding vacation in October and November: I'd say go for it, but as I've already said, I did things much
earlier. I did away rotations in September and October. In theory, some programs might give preference
to applicants who apply earlier (I felt I needed all the help I could get). As long as you're comfortable with
your schedule and letters, I would take those months off.
You'll start getting interview invitations in mid-November all the way into early January. The match list
was due at midnight, February 22nd this year.
bonepain
Registered User
Posts: 6
(3/3/01 4:15:58 pm)
Reply
November interviews??
Thanks for your very informative post. I am starting to put together a CV and am looking at programs
for my away. Any thought on doing an away (ie. it would benefit me and it is logistically not too difficult)
on the following:
Baylor
UT Southwestern
Stanford
Carolinas or UNC
Virginia
These are probably my top 5 or 6 programs that I think are reasonably within my reach. Of course, I
would love to go to HSS or Hopkins or something, however, I reasoned that doing an away at those
programs would not help me any.
Also, how many programs interview in November??? Do you know which ones?? I was planning on taking
a trip out of country during November (my friend is getting hitched) and so I really would not be able to
make an interview during that month. Thus, I was hoping there were not very many programs
interviewing during that time. I suppose I could just not apply to those programs.
Thanks again.
crazy joe davola
Registered User
Posts: 19
(3/3/01 10:45:58 pm)
Reply
November interviews??
I heard of very few students actually interviewing in November. I would be sure to have email access
during that month and someone to pick up your mail and keep you updated on interview offers (many
guys got screwed by waiting even ONE day to respond to emails).
I know a little about Southwestern. They interview two groups: rotators and non-rotators (about 50-60
total). Typically they favor those who rotated there. My recommendation would be to rotate there if
you're seriously considering them (sounds like you are).
Underdog1974
Registered User
Posts: 15
(3/4/01 2:27:36 pm)
Reply
EXTERNSHIP timeline
When to do externships is a good question, and something I have been asked by several third-years at
my school. I recommend doing them EARLY.
Your first sub-internship should be at your home institution. I recommend May or June as good months
to do it. Your second sub-internship should be an away rotation at one of your top choices. I
recommend June or July. Your third sub-internship should be another away rotation; August or
September are good months. Yes, I recommend doing two externships--orthopaedics is a tough field to
break into.
Many people believe that doing sub-internships LATER in the year is better since applicants are
theoretically remembered better. I think this is bull. If you do a great job and are a stand-out, people will
remember you. Your evaluations should be able to speak for themselves if you do a stellar job. Many
students put off doing their first sub-internship until July or even August. That is crazy, but good for
those of you who do their sub-internships early.
If you do your first away rotation in July, you will be competing with students at their home institution
who will be doing orthopaedics as their very first sub-internship. How can you not look like a star when
you have already had a month of orthopaedics at your own school? If you do your away rotation when
everybody else is doing them (i.e. September or October), you will be competing with other away
sub-interns who want very badly to make a good impression (just like you), and you also will not be able
to garner a rec letter from your experience. It's hard to be a stand-out when the competition is so fierce
that late in the year.
My advice: Do your sub-internships as early as possible. If you can get away with doing three
sub-internships by the end of September, you will be in a terrific position to apply, get rec letters from a
multitude of faculty, and match. Many people will probably disagree, but I personally think it's easiest to
shine early in the year when other students are still trying to figure out how to act in the operating
room. Good luck.
orthosurg1
Registered User
Posts: 8
(3/4/01 7:46:11 pm)
Reply
timeline reply
I think that I would have to agree with most of the stuff that the other guys have put down. These guys
know what they are talking about. I think that I would add a couple of things to underdog's statements
that may help you out. I did three away rotations. However, due to some of my school's bogus
requirements, I was only able to get the months of September, October, and November-December to do
aways. The aways in Sept. and Oct. gave me plenty of time to get letters that were able to get to
programs on time. (You may have to push the attendings a little harder to get the letters done, though).
The away in November did not allow me enough time to get a letter to other programs, but I believe that
it was invaluable. First, I was able to get an attending from that program to write me a letter that was
put into my file at that program. Second, this certain institution was one that interviews very very few
students and I believed without that away, I would not have received an invitation to interview there.
Third, I will dispute the fact that a later rotator does not have a little advantage in the "being
remembered" category. During my interview, many attendings told me that they felt as if they knew me
better than any rotator that had gone through there. I think that a little of that had to do with the fact
that I just finished my rotation prior to the interviews. I also feel like if you are trying to figure out what
to do in the OR at any time on any rotation (home or away), you are in deep trouble. I think that the
secret to having a very successful away rotation does not depend on when you do it (unless your main
objective is to get a letter), it has to do with three basic things. One, working your butt off. I mean
working harder than you ever have...taking call every second or third night, offering to help out on
anything when you are not busy, and giving your pager # to the on-call guy on nights that you are NOT
on call just in case something interesting comes in or they need an extra set of hands. Second, when
your not working, you're studying about tomorrow's cases, that day's cases, and then about ortho in
general. Third, and probably the one that is pure luck in many cases, is the ability to fit in with the
residents and even attendings. If by some chance, you seem to have a lot in common with the residents
and they like you, you're as good as gold. Last, but not least, relax and enjoy the journey.
