Step 1 Cut off - Need your info

where did you get this information? I can tell for sure that at least one of those is not true.

Dear dfagod1 and others,

Perhaps I was not clear in my post, my apologies. I am not at all saying that I believe these values represent the cutoff point for any of these programs, but these numbers represent scores that applicants got who later successfully received interview offers at these programs.

I am actually trying to show how low of a score one can have on Step 1 and STILL get interviews. In my experience, this is an area where the necessity to score highly is grossly overstated by most people, and trying to help out future people interested in ortho, but intimidated by people who propagate such information.

Maybe I will be proven wrong and >95% of the programs will, in fact, show cutoff scores of 230 or greater. But I strongly feel this is not true, as indicated in the original post. So, what I am asking for is exactly what you said in your post (if I am reading you correctly). If you know that one of these programs has offered an interview to an applicant with a lower score, then copy and paste the list as requested, and replace with the lower score. Additionally, please add programs. It would be nice for future applicants to have a complete list of programs based on our experience this year.

This would help:
1. Applicants save money assuming the cutoff points next year are similar , if a program actually uses cutoffs (which many do not, and may change their mind in doing so).
2. Applicants direct their efforts in choosing where to bust their asses on sub-internships.[/i]

.... take the list with a bigass grain of salt. i got interviews at 4 of those programs (at which i did NOT rotate) with a sub-220 step 1 score and an interesting application.

Ok, I think I see what you are going for here. You want to show that not all programs have absolute cutoffs, while also trying to find those that do. I cut and pasted the list here, but I put in bold my additions. Those that are saying this list is wrong, please correct it with your experience or first hand knowledge. Please indicate which programs were ones you rotated at, since I think that makes a difference at some programs.

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205
Yale-205
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 230
Brown - 228
West Virginia - 228[/b]

dportugal - THANK YOU! Someone finally understood. I guess I am not very good at explaining myself.

Novas - I am sorry that my message wasn't clear enough. If you have a sub-220 score and interviewed at places, then I think your information could be very valuable to other applicants in the future. The whole point of my post was so that they could have some data they DIDN'T, in fact, need to take with a "huge grain of salt", as much as possible with an online forum. Good luck this year, and please share if you feel comfortable doing so.

To restate: These scores are either what I, or someone I know, had for Step 1 and received an interview offer THIS YEAR for the program listed. There are obviously multiple other factors in the application process, but just trying to single out the one here for the purpose of cutoff points. If you, or someone you know, had a lower score and received an interview offer, then please post. And yes, I agree that it would also be useful to note the difference b/w rotator vs non-rotator, good call.

Hi, I'm a MS3 new to orthogate. I never really thought of going into ortho, but some of my MS4 friends were encouraging me to go into it recently. I am a woman and my ortho friends (both guys and girls) were telling me how they are seeing women with relatively lower board scores get interviews at place where guys with scores of 20+ points higher aren't getting. One female applicant even said that a particular program, I forgot which one, was actively recruiting women. They say this doesn't really happen in the South but I'm not planning on going there.

I have a high 210s board score and was wondering if you guys noticed a similar trend. That would be great if these score cuttoffs don't apply to my gender. If I do actually have a shot, I may choose ortho for my surgery elective later this year. Just curious, Novas and dportugal are you a woman as well? What other interesting things do you need to get an interview with a low Step I? Maybe my cheerleading in high school will count as interesting. That's the closest thing to sports that I've been involved in. Thanks!

yes i am female. my step one was in the same range as yours, but when i decided on ortho, (late, i was grooming myself for primary care or ER) i busted my ass on step 2, did 2 away ortho rotations and honored them, did a home ortho rotation sub-I and honored it and started trying to network within my home ortho program. i got strong letters of recommendation. i also got a faculty advisor or two, started getting involved with the research that goes on here early in my 4th year and went to as many grand rounds, journal clubs, lectures as i could. basically i wanted to show people i was serious and interested.

as far as an interesting application ... well, that's just an individualized thing. my path to medschool wasn't typical and my activities during medschool weren't typical of what most programs tend to see (at least that's what i've been told in all my interviews.) i'm not going to babble on about what i've done, but when it comes down to it, i'm secure in my application and can explain well all of my "ortho deficiencies." i also can explain very well what has drawn me to ortho and why i want to do it. everyone will ask you that.

bottom line is if you decide it's something you want to do, with a sub-220 score, you need to start busting your butt to show your interest. you can get interviews, but be prepared to explain the 'why ortho' question and discuss the aspects of your application that are different or 'deficient' with confidence.

Wow, you reply way fast. I was just logging back in to make sure that I posted correctly and you already responded. Thanks for that info. I never thought that I could do something competitive like ortho. It's nice to feel that you're sought after. To tell you the truth, I'm getting tired of busting my but off and can't wait till winter break. But maybe I'll try to take your situation to help motivate me. Now if I could only go back and retake Step I.

This is very disturbing.....in many ways....I dont think I am the only one who feels that way when I read some of these posts.

Banging bones - What exactly is disturbing about this thread?

I started this thread, but clearly people seem to reading it the wrong way. Can somebody please help me out here? If I was communicating this better, I assure you there would be nothing at all disturbing or offensive about it. Please somebody, I am feeling extremely misunderstood and it is very, very frustrating.

Md007...I think your idea of starting this thread is veery reasonable and might help people out....definately none of us but maybe MS3's etc. However, the divergance of the thread into programs actively recruiting women with 210's is a little disturbing because they make the situation seem so trivial. There is much more involved than the boards but I am not for a system where you can just switch from wanting to go into family medicine one day with a 210 and then the next switch to Ortho and get more inteviews than guys who have wanted it since day one and then proceed to rub it in their faces by saying programs are simply looking for women as "bigbear" seems to have heard.

Don't worry, banging_bones, I think that someone who's "tired of busting [her] butt off and can't wait until winter break" is going to go about as far in ortho as you could throw a big bear.

Amen to that!

hmm... that wasn't my intention in replying to rub anything in anyone's face. i was merely stating that i did start out with a 218 and an idea of going into primary care (peds, actually, and not family) or ER and when i found surgery, and more specifically, ortho and changed my mind, i busted my ass to get where i wanted to get. i was only trying to show it was possible to go the ortho route without having a 230. that's all.

i'm not trying to trivialize anything here, nor rub it into anyone's face. i'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you've strongly misread my post, rather than that you're insinuating my change of career goals and what i did to attain the new (ortho) goals are in any way trivializing all of our struggles with this application.

just because i wasn't ortho from day one doesn't mean i'm any less deserving of a spot in the field, and in no way am i saying my progress in this application cycle is just because i'm a woman. i worked my ass off for the last year trying to get where i am right now. i can't speak for the other woman poster, but in no way am i some flighty girly girl playing around here. i'm also staring down thousands of dollars of debt for 67 applications and over 40 rejections at this point. we're in this together.

I am a woman, but that was the least of what made my application unique among the sub-mean crowd. I am sure there are programs out there that are trying to interview more women (though this does not at all mean they have any plans to match them). However, I feel confident that there are plenty of women out there who rocked the boards and did research (two from my school who matched high on their rank list last year) that they could pick instead of seeking out low scorers. I highly discourage anyone who isn't truly set on ortho to apply just because they think they have a chance. That said, if there is nothing more you want in life than to be in ortho, but you screwed up on step 1, this thread can be helpful to show where your application will at least get considered.

and i also forgot to add:

maybe it didn't come across that way in the first place, but my point was that in no way should someone rely on the i'm a woman, i'm a minority, etc etc to get into ortho. my point was that if you are already behind the 8ball with a low step one, you can overcome it by working HARD and proving your interest and capabilities. female, male, black, white, yellow, whatever.

All great points, at least most of them! We are, on some level, certainly all in this together, so let us now please get back on track. Please start another thread if you feel you have to prove some other point. Many of you have said this info can be useful to other applicants, but dportugal is the only one to have contributed.

If you or someone you know scored less than the number mentioned and was offered an interview this year at the program listed, please copy, paste, and update the list. Add programs as necessary in alphabetical order by state, indicate if rotated.

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205
Yale-205
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 230
Brown - 228
West Virginia - 228

Geeze, I didn't mean to hijack this thread. I was just trying to get some more info based on what some people told me. I wasn't trying to rub anything in anybody's face. Just exploring different fields like all MS3s do. I don't think there's anything wrong with switching fields from family to ortho early in 4th year if you feel strongly about. And in regards to "TibulaDoc"s comment, I'm sure I'm not the only one looking forward to winter break after a working hard during third year.

I can't say that I totally agree to the perceived double standard that my friends describe. And we don't even know if it actually exists, or if these people even match after interviews. But I'm at least going to explore my chances of getting into ortho. OK, I'm not going to say anymore about this. This thread will be very useful for future applicants like me. I wish I new actual numbers so I can contribute, but right now I'm only a leech.

Everyone handles applications differently, obviously. If you really want to have some facts, instead of just opinions, maybe you should check out the August 2006 issue of Clinical Orthopaedics and Related Research.

I agree with the above. I just got done with an interview up at Mayo, and the program director, Dr. Hanssen, referred to this article as to how the Mayo applicants were scored. Not that every other program is using this scoring system, but it's a good thing to be aware of (especially if you want to go to Mayo)
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. The citation for the article is below. There's also a bunch of other good articles in that month about fellowship selection and other ortho residency topics.

A Quantitative Composite Scoring Tool for Orthopaedic Residency Screening and Selection.
Clinical Orthopaedics & Related Research. 449:50-55, August 2006.
Turner, Norman S MD *; Shaughnessy, William J MD *; Berg, Emily J *; Larson, Dirk R +; Hanssen, Arlen D MD *