Step II vs Away Rotations

Any program is going to like someone who "works their ass off, and gets along with everyone." Question is, "is that you?" All programs (i would assume) favor a rotator just on the fact that they 'know' them...so to speak. Of course this could hurt you too. I really never thought one would hurt themselves by rotating (of course, anyone wanting to do ortho is a hardworker, right?). well, i have found out from this whole experience is that some rotators have hurt themselves (from what some residents have told me). So, you know yourself better than anyone else....so base your decision on that.
Step II....never got asked about it, actually never got asked about step I either. My opinion is: if you think your step I is avg., then take step II early. probably will improve score if you put the time in. regardless of scores, i have found that those waiting to take it later have a much harder time studying for it. (of course, if you rocked step I, then you probably won't care to study)

My feeling on the issue is that you should take step 2 early and try to do exceptionally well on it. You can do very well on your away rotations, but a lot of the guys/girls will so you have to make sure that you can differentiate yourself from other applicants...namely your USMLE scores. I would try to take it early on in your year so that the results (taking approx 6 wks to return) will be in my October or November and the committees will have a chance to review them.

Agreed. Step II early and score above a 230. Then pick a couple of places that you feel you would fit in and enjoy spending 5 years. Do the externships there and get to know the residents well. Don't be a kiss @$$ or obnoxious...just do your work and try to be as helpful as possible. Bottomline: the residents have the faculty's ear and they can make or break you. Most medium sized programs (~4/year) look for candidates that will fit in with their current residents. The subjective factor goes a long, long way.

HJ

take step II this spring when you finish your third year. no question that board scores factor in, so you have some catching up to do in that regard. i tried to think of it this way - if i were trying to decide whether i would want to interview me, what excuses could they come up with to not invite me? (you know what i mean...). if your achilles is boards, hit step II hard and early to try to cover that track.

remember the usual disclaimers of "just my opinion"

cheers

Ortho05 (and all other aspiring Orthopedic surgeons),

I apologize ahead of time for my reply because I know I will offend some, but I can't let be. I have a hard time understanding why there seems to be post after post on this board that go like this...'I am in ___ %ile of my class, not AOA, scored a ___ in Step I (score is often at or below average) what are my chances/odds/etc? or what should I do about this or that. My first issue with this is addressed in the post "a plead to third years" started by Busticate. I advise reading that. My second issue is this: Assuming you knew prior to taking Step I that you wanted to go into ortho or something else competitive, why the par or subpar Step I scores? Others have also, with annoyance, alluded to this point in previous responses to the above type of posts. My plead to those who read this board and who haven't taken Step I (or for that matter Step II) PLAN TO DO WELL AND MAKE WHATEVER ARRANGMENTS (read sacrifices) THAT ARE NEEDED TO INSURE YOUR INDIVIDUAL SUCCESS. Now if you do this and do your best and end up average or wherever, then what else can you do, you've done your best and have to make some tough choices. But I contend that anyone who is of normal intelligence and puts enough time in will excel on Step I, or any endeavor for that matter (I recommend either one of Lance Armstrong's books for a good exposition on the pain that must be incurred in achieving one's dreams). There's no other path if you truly aspire to ortho (or derm, ophtho, etc). I believe this may well be the best pearl that can be had on this board. I personally started reading this board as an M1 and have always appreciated the posts that emphasized what I've just said so if there's someone that benefits from my post, then it was worth my time posting it.

OF

though i agreed with busticate's post, one of the things this forum is for is sharing information pertaining to successfully matching into ortho. in defense of Ortho05, I think he was seeking advice on whether audition rotations or an early step 2 should take top priority - a valid question. posting his credentials helps in shaping how you'd reply to this person, advice-wise, b/c you might have 2 different strategies depending on how you did on step 1. i had the same burning question being in a similar situation a few months back, and decided to take a "lighter" rotation first so that i could take step 2 early but still have about 2 weeks of extra study time during that first rotation, then squeeze in a few AI's before November. obviously if you have a deficit, you'd wanna fix it, but for many of us it's almost equally important to have a good audition run. my 2 cents.

wow orthofixation - you sound like a really great guy to work with. As far as the Step II vs aways goes, I would do a month or two in July/August then take Step II, or just take it right off the bat in July. Definitely take it though. Remember, by FAR the best thing you can do for yourself is dominate away rotations - nothing will make your stock rise or fall more than that.

Hey Southernortho...maybe we'll get to work together someday:-) Your sarcasm is certainly mature. In all fairness to Ortho05's question here's my $.02:

Rotating at schools can be hit or miss despite what advice people give you. You may not like the program(s), or they may not like you after getting a chance to scrutinize you for 2-4 weeks. By that time, you've possibly squandered several months and then you don't have a great Step II score to make up for your average Step I score. I just don't think aways are a home run to get into a program, although in some cases I'm sure they are. If I was a bettin' man and I had to bet on whether a great (ie >240) Step II score, or a couple of months rotating would get me farther, I would take the Step II score because it's more of a sure thing. The good news is you can do both if you work hard, in which case take Step II and put in the time (probably 2-3 weeks depending on your confidence in your clinical knowledge and test taking abilities) necessary to get a good score. Then you still have enough time to do a couple of aways. As far as the 'by the way' question you asked, I can't think of a single reason why ANY program wouldn't "tend to favor those students that rotate, work their ass off, and get along with everyone?" I think every program is after these, and other positive qualities. In the end, you have to make the calls and follow your decisions through so make sure you do what you really want to do and consider mine and others opinions as just that...opinions. Good luck.

OF

With all due respect--I welcome the inquiries of younger medical students including specifics with regards to stats, chances and career options. Sometimes people are in a tough place and they need realistic advice.

ortho5 -- I was in a similar situation. I scored well above the average on my boards but nothing spectacular. Since I had done really well on my clinical rotations I opted to do more away rotations as opposed to taking step 2 early.
In the end I did three aways and absolutely killed 2 of them, leaving with a much improved chance at spots which I numerically had no business competing for. The 3rd rotation was a totally different story. I just did not fit in with the residents. I worked my butt off, even honored the rotation but...no interview. This was my backup program which numerically I would of had a shot in if I didn't ruin it by rotating. "Fitting in" is something that you have very little control over (btw- never kiss @#s) I told you this story so that you can see first hand why each away rotation is a risk which may greatly help or hurt you. In retrospect, I would recommend taking a month off and studying animal style for step II. It can make a big difference. I cannot promise that you will have the same experience but hope that this gives you a better perspective on the decisions ahead.

Ortho05,
Just remember that your goal as a student is to get as many interviews as you can; obviously so you can increase your chances of matching.
So, if you rotate somewhere and they like you, you have virtually guaranteed yourself an interview.
Taking Step II early is a gamble. Low score-wasted months; High score-hopefully more interviews. But, think about it. You took a standardized test and got average. If you studied appropriately for Step I, then it's not likely, in my opinion, that your Step II score will change much. To me, that seems logical.
So, it's a gamble. If you really know your Step I score does not accurately reflect your potential, knock out Step II. But, realize if you were devoted in preparing for Step I and got average, then I would rotate at as many places that I could and work hard. Those are guaranteed interviews.
Good Luck

First off, I would like to thank all of those who have responded. A few weeks ago, I could have never imagined such a great response. Orthofixation, for this I thank you. I would also like to thank you for showing such restraint over the past three weeks in not repsonding with your little tirade. Most students read Busticate's post that you allude to and we have respected those wishes, however, we also look to advice not only from 4th years, but also interns, residents, and PD's that visit this sight.
As for the Step I, there are reasons that some people do not perform up to their own standards. Sometimes there are unforseen illnesses, or deaths of close family members/ friends, and sometimes, people just had an "off day".
As for my comment about the places that like students "who work their ass off", I would have thought that most people would have figured out that I was asking about programs that don't place such a heavy emphasis on Board scores, that are known for favoring rotators. We hear so much about places that only take the 250+ board scores to interview despite maybe someone having done a quality rotation there with only a 249. Anyways, good luck to all with the match. Hope to hear even more constructive thoughts and advice.

this board is only as good as the number of contributors and opinions posted. i encourage anyone and everyone to post anything constructive or curious on any topic related to the pursuit of ortho. to all the voyeurs out there that read but don't post, register and get involved. contribute something instead of just siphoning off information. one of the main functions of this site, as i see it, is to alay our fears and anxieties by sharing the burden with our potential colleagues. if it makes you feel better to post your numbers and solicit feedback, fine. if we all remember that this is a little supportive community, we will be kind and patient instead of harsh and judgmental. many newbies are not aware of the search function, and simply need a little guidance. if any of the fourth years seem a little edgy right now, consider the timing, and please excuse a short fuse. alot of us are spending excessive time at orthogate because the stress is killing us, and fourth year is a joke. come on and let's have a big group hug.

can't imagine why anyone cares what i think about it, but suddenly i feel warm and fuzzy all over.