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Chaney3
Registered User
Posts: 1
(6/26/01 8:34:49 pm)
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Letters
I'm new to this forum and I must say it is awesome...what a great source of information! Thanks to all who
contribute.
I had a question about letters of rec. I was wondering how well you guys know your letter writers. I know
everyone says "ask surgeons who know you well". Well, my problem is that no surgeon knows me that well. I
know a couple of orthopods...I've worked with them on and off over the last couple of years...with research
and also scrubbed in with them...but I cannot really say that they know me all that well. My first 2 years I
was busy as heck studying trying to get good grades...and 3rd year was so hectic I had virtually no time to
get to know any orthopods. And I have zero orthopods in the family tree. I'm wondering if anyone else is in
this position. I realize it's preferable that you be best buddies with your letter writers...but in many cases this
is not possible. One of the surgeons is a big name, but all I've done is shadow him for 3 days in the clinic and
scrubbed in with him twice, did research at his institution but not with him -- should I just give him a copy of
my CV and hope for the best? He's very well-published and famous and will write me a letter if I ask him, but I
don't know how "personal" the letter will be.
Thanks in advance for any advice.
bonehead
Registered User
Posts: 4
(6/27/01 7:53:19 am)
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letters
what about letters from general surgeons? useful or useless?
DIGbones
Registered User
Posts: 3
(6/27/01 1:01:05 pm)
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Re: letters
Chaney,
Dude, there are plenty of ppl in the same boat including myself. I did an ortho rotation, didnt really work with
the chair but asked him write a letter because he is a big name and he write an awesome letter, basically
what I am saying is that if you feel that he will take enough time to write a letter, then def take you cv and
meet with him. See what he says, test the waters. I am sure personalized letters are better but I think getting
a decent letter from a big name goes a long way too. hope it works out man.
NY MS3
orthohopeful
Registered User
Posts: 8
(6/27/01 5:46:06 pm)
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letters
I'm in a similar (or somewhat worse) position. I don't know any orthopods well enough to ask for letters yet
(start my first rotation next week), and I didn't get nearly enough contact with the general surgery attendings
to get a great letter out of them. What I have heard on this subject may help you though. When you do your
ortho rotations most of your time is spent with the residents. You see the top dogs in the OR sometimes, and
maybe they pimp you a little, but nothing too special. I have heard two things that I find encouraging though.
One is that if you work your ass off while on the ortho services, the residents take notice and will tell the right
people (they were in the same boat). Secondly you just have to ask for the letter in the right way to be sure
you get a good letter. You have to be assertive and ask "would you feel comfortable recommending me to
other programs" instead of "can you write me a letter?". If you just ask if they can write a letter, usually they
will say yes, but you have no clue what kind of letter you're getting until its too late. If you sort of put them
on the spot by trying to get some indication as to whether or not they feel comfortable giving you the praise
you so desperately want, then usually they will clue you in on what they feel. I have no personal experience
with doing this, but it is the approach that was recommended to me by my forbears in this endeavor, and it
worked well for them.
Hope that helps and I welcome comment/criticism on this outlook.
Chaney3
Registered User
Posts: 2
(6/27/01 8:38:25 pm)
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Re: letters
I guess I'm not the only one with this problem. It seems strange to me that they place so much emphasis on
letters. During med school, you really don't have any exposure to orthopods...just the beginning of your 4th
year...Heck, they don't even teach you any orthopedics in med school! I can understand letters from internal
medicine or peds or ob/gyn, etc...all the required clerkships...but it seems unfair how they expect you to kick
a%! in school AND become chummy with orthopedic surgeons. There's just not enough time!!!
bonehead, letters from general surgeons can help, but obviously not as much ortho letters. Someone told me
that if you can get a GREAT letter from a general surgeon, it would help. But if the letter is going to be just a
run-of-the-mill letter...than I think it's best to get one from an orthopod who doesn't know you that well
rather than a general surgeon who doesn't know you that well ! I guess the point is this: if you KNOW a gen
surgeon will write you an AWESOME letter, go for it. But I wouldn't take my chances if I wasn't sure. Just my
thoughts.
Orthohopeful, I think that's a much better approach...Another piece of advice I got a little while ago: ask your
potential letter writer to look over your personal statement...see what he thinks... in reality you could care
less but it's just another way for him to get to know you AND it's a great way to get across to him things that
you want him to know about you.
Any other thoughts/suggestions??
bonepain
Registered User
Posts: 23
(6/27/01 9:32:26 pm)
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letters
The best thing to do is research. Also, I did a preclinical preceptorship and then did the same rotation for my
3rd year surgery rotation... thus the attendings saw me again. I also kept in touch with the doctors and did
research with one of them.
Also, I think the chairman of your ortho dept. should always write a letter for you, regardless of how well
he/she knows you. If you visit with him/her a couple times, discuss your interest in ortho, and give him/her a
CV/transcript... that should be enough.
I also considered doing an away at a small program with a superstar chairman (ie. Lenox hill), and requesting
the chairman's service. This way, I could work somewhat more closely with a well known chairman and
hopefully get a great (and powerful) letter out of it.
I ended up scraping those plans because my chairman told me I was qualified enough to get into the programs
in my state, which is as far as my ambition reaches. However, I do think it is a good idea... esp. if you think
your numbers are borderline. You have to rememeber that the bottom line is still #s when is comes to get a
large number of interviews. Good luck
Two Fingers
Registered User
Posts: 2
(6/27/01 11:50:45 pm)
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Letters
If you are concerned who to get your letters from, you need to understand what information the programs get
from those letters. They already know your grades and board scores, they use the letters to learn about your
personality: how you work with others, your willingness to work hard, your attitude after you've been working
your ass off for over 24 hours straight, etc. They want something to tell them that you are a hardworking,
trustworthy doctor who they will be willing to work with for the next 5 years.
So, a letter from *anyone* who knows you very well and how you perform under difficult circumstances will be
valuable to a program. Obviously, if that letter comes from an orthopod, that's best, but a letter from a
general surgeon is fine. I'd recommend a strong letter from a general surgeon who knows you very well over a
non-specific letter from even a superstar orthopod who doesn't know you personally.
You should, however, have a letter from an orthopod. It *must* be from someone you knows you very well. If
that is only a chief resident, then so be it.
Lastly, when you ask someone to write you a letter, be sure to ask if they feel that they can right you a
good, detailed letter. Since most will write a letter if you ask, you don't want to get stuck with a letter that
basically says that the person doesn't know a whole lot about you.
