New York and New Jersey programs

I haven't personally interviewed/rotated these, but I've head great things about LIJ and how it is improving every year. Other than that, I've also heard Rutgers is solid, but haven't heard much about any of the other programs.

Hey guys and gals,

So I was able to gather some info from other applicants and what I’ve heard. If anyone else is interested. I tried to organize my thoughts but mainly it comes out as a jumble of info…..

Seton Hall

This program sounds like a very friendly place to be and the residents there are happy. There are 3 residents per year and they do work hard. The program has a community feel (which means limited research opportunities). They have many different attendings with which they work. However, it sounds like they get a good volume and variety of cases, with plenty of hands on experience. The chairman is an extremely nice guy who the residents all like and he is very interested in getting the residents to operate.

The main hospital is in Paterson, NJ which itself is not that great but also not far from NYC. The residents live in Hoboken, Hackensack, jersey city, and one of the current chiefs even lives in Manhattan. They also go to Hackensack and there was some talk of increasing their presence there. They do have some late nights operating but seems like minimal scut work, just operating late. They have didactics every week including lectures and anatomy.

Overall seems like a great community program with good location. Great residents who work in a hard-working but positive atmosphere with lots of hands-on operative experience. Minimal scutwork. They get to go to a variety of conferences and courses throughout residency. Downside may be lack of research but that doesn’t seem to hinder their fellowship match. Seems like a good overall program with good morale and operative experience and will be ranking them highly


Rutgers- NJMS Newark

So I have heard mixed things on this program. Some say it’s great trauma-heavy program with great operative experience, some say it’s a very malignant program at a busy trauma center with more scutwork than OR work.

One fellow applicant who rotated in the summer told me he ‘watched the junior resident watching the senior resident watch the attending operate, then they both got to close at the end.’ The call, especially in the summer, sounds awful and extremely busy. They do 2 months of night float as PGY2 which some residents at the pre-interview event admitted is very tough and draining. On paper the variety of cases and specialties covered sounds great, but it didn’t seem clear if much actual operating takes place by residents. The rotator I asked said that the residents definitely even had to transport patients around the hospital themselves. Also heard that a lot of attendings have left in the past few months, which is never a sign of good things. The impression I got was that it is a very malignant place without much true operating experience. Apparently there also is a negative report about the program from a former resident on Doximity, also about how the program is malignant and doesn’t train residents to operate. I don’t know what to think of that by itself, but it seems to be confirmed by someone who rotated in the summer.

Overall the residents seem very nice in person, but they were so overflowing with positive things about the program it made me question their sincerity. The only thing they confirmed was the difficulty of night float, everything else was made out to seem great, and maybe it is. The program director similarly didn’t strike me as someone who was genuine and honest about the program. It sounds like they have great research opportunities by being a more academic program, as well as a 2-month research block.

Pros are the location close to manhattan, and the residents do seem nice (6 per year). Not sure about the malignancy of the program. Will be very low or not on my list.



Maimo

Able to get some more info on this place. Three residents per year, and has a pseudo-academic feel. The residents are nice people who get along together. They mostly live in Brooklyn, but spend some time as a PGY4 resident at outside rotations. The entire PGY2 year is at Maimonides rotating through a variety of subspecialties. As a PGY3 some time is spent in Connecticut. The resident experience seems somewhat heirarchical but the residents seem satistfied in their operative time. It's a smaller program and they cover a few sites, so the workload is busy, but the residents seem to manage.

The variety of cases is good but it's clear that trauma is lacking. Of the hospitals in the NYC area, Lutheran doesn't necessarily get the hottest trauma. That being said, the residents made it sound like they got enough of what they needed. Hands-on training moreso for the senior residents but some opportunities for juniors.

They do have a good foundation of didactics with their 'stimulation center' as well as research facilities. They have organized time for didactics on monday mornings, as well as journal clubs and they get to go to one course/conference per PGY year. It's location in Brooklyn is gives them access to Manhattan in their time off.

A few brief nuggets:

St. Lukes: Will be merging with Mount Sinai's residency program next year as a single 7 resident program. They interview 150 applicants for 3 spots.

LIJ: Fairly balanced program. They have a lot of resources for research, but you have to take the initiative. There is a lot of call here. q2 24-hour for a few months as a PGY2/3 in addition to 2 months night float as a PGY2 and 1 month as a PGY3. Located in the suburbs, you can live in Brooklyn/Queens but you will be commuting a ways. Intern's starting salary is the highest in the country ($69K).

Maimonides: Limited trauma, solid subspecialty exposure. Good work hours. They take 3 residents per year, but 1 has to do a research year. If nobody volunteers (which often happens), they flip a coin or draw straws. You have to be ok with this.

SUNY Brooklyn: They were on probation a few years ago for insufficient research and full-time faculty members. Good autonomy and trauma experience here, and they publish quite a bit now for a community-feel program. Fairly hierarchical structure among the residents.

Thanks OP! Really appreciate the breakdown as a future applicant from the East Coast.

Thought i'd bump this thread with my own opinions based on rotating, interview, and discussions with residents/students.


Monmouth

This program can be a good program depending on what you are looking for. It is a very community-based program which is strong in spine and joints. The residents do go elsewhere for a few specialties that aren't as well-covered there. The program is small if that's what you are looking for. The location is reasonably close to Philly, Atlantic City, NYC. Also during summertime is right on the beaches of the Jersey Shore.

The program itself does well in the match for spine and total joints and pediatrics recently. Unfortunately, there apparently was a former resident who was fired after 3-4 years of residency. I don't know the details but without anything egregious, I would assume they would try to help him through residency instead of string him/her along.

The call here can be busy during the summer/fall time when I rotated. No crazy trauma, but good community-ortho consults. With so few residents, they get to know the attendings very well and their comfort level with the attendings is high. Unfortunately, if they don't like you, you might not do as much? They are a residency where the attendings are all affiliated with private groups, so they have smoothly running practices with PA help, etc. This makes things better for the residents as they can focus on their own training.

There is a ton of time here for studying and the residents seem to be happy with their in-training and board scores. They have a library and regular reading schedules and discussions. I cannot comment on the outside rotations they do. Overall they get along well and seem happy with their program and training. The older residents get much more autonomy and decisions in their daily activity and the call burden is lessened appropriately as you get older. Occasional overnight cases, but infrequent it seems like. Not much focus on research but the residents do have projects going on.




Rutgers - NJMS (Newark)

This unfortunately is a program that is swiftly falling in multiple aspects and I think should be avoided by any applicant with other options. As a rotator, you really get the sense here that things are not as they seem, and that the program is on a slide. They have had mass losses of experienced, longstanding attendings in Hand, Sports, Spine, Joints over the last few years. The only stable departments are Trauma and Tumor. Not only have multiple attendings left, but support staff like PAs, program coordinators, and secretaries have also left. This to me indicates something severely wrong and toxic with the environment of the entire department,

As far as experience, the residents are forthcoming that trauma is the high-point of the residency. But cases often have multiple residents in them. Tumor is also strong, but very stressful. Cases are led by attendings and residents seem to be around to close skin. Not a lot of teaching or independence of operative learning. There have been a few scathing verified reviews on doximity and orthogate which indicate the residents are trained to be 'good PAs' with their time spent triaging hospital clinics, calling for pre-auths, calling reps, and doing a lot of casts and dressings. This seems true from what I've seen/heard. Little to no experience in outpatient sports, joints, spine cases. But lots of busy clinic and floor work.

The residents are all good people, predominantly male, and you get that macho vibe here. The get along, but very hierarchical and malignant. Seniors do little scut work and put a heavy burden on juniors. There have been a few residents in the last few years which did not match into a fellowship, which is not comforting. Additionally I heard there have been people who failed the ortho boards. Also not great. One resident said they changed their curriculum a few times trying to increase scores, but without success. Very little stability of curriculum and little time to read.

Without knowing all of the details, there was an ACGME site visit which happened because of the malignant environment and unfair treatment of residents. The result was the forced resignation of the old program director (foot and ankle). One resident said "if he liked you, those people got away with cheating on the OITE. If he didn't, he would threaten to fire you for falling behind on consults." Also inequality in selection for going to certain courses (other than AANA, AO)

The residents are great people and hardworking. But rundown. Proximity to NYC is a plus. 6 residents a year makes call a little better (less frequent), but hard. Much of the resident's daily life is clinic-related and limited OR/reading. There is no research help or focus on research here. It seems like a blue-collar program where you work hard but without any benefit of learning. Unstable faculty in a malignant environment. Failing boards and not matching fellowships are HUGE red flags, in addition to recent ACGME site visit. Focus on clinic/floors over independent operating (and multiple residents per case). The last few classes of residents have been re-applicants and people who did prelim years (those with limited options). So if you are in that boat this seems like a good bet.



North Shore- LIJ


This is a good community program on Long Island that is close to Brooklyn/Queens and manageable to Manhattan. THey have a group of residents who are hard-working but get along. I did like my time here and will consider this in ranking. This is a good community program with some well-known names in the NYC area. The residents are only 4 per year and are spread out at many different sites, so they do work hard (and are well-paid). This is good for their operative experience as I felt they were confident and got great training. The residents all do well in boards, OITE, and all match into good fellowships.

The residents do have a pretty good call burden as juniors. It is community trauma, so nothing crazy, but definitely a steady flow of consults which can become busy. Seniors take home call. The strength of this program is operating. Case coverage comes first, with outpatient office hours only filled if no cases or other educational events going on. THe residents get one-on-one time with attendings and have great autonomy in the OR for learning. THe PAs and NPs cover the floors and the residents just do cases. More cases than residents so tons of experience. The only mandated clinic is the resident clinic on Wednesday mornings.

There is not a heavy focus on research but you can get things done if you want. It's a community program but the research focus is building up. They do have full-time research staff so that is a plus. The education is solid with wednesday teaching in the AM and also a bioskills lab that is real and useful (not just talk). The residents seem to have a good work/life balance, but may not necessarily hang out with each other since they rotate all over the place. Many live all over from Manhattan/BK to Long island itself. Having a car is a necessity. Access to LI beaches as well as big city life via LIRR.

Overall this is a suburban, community program with access to NYC. The residents get great operative training with one-on-one interaction and autonomy from attendings. Community program with bread/butter cases taught by private attendings. There is ample support staff in both clinical and research aspects and the residents are allowed to focus on learning and operating. A true diamond in the rough program of sorts, I think it is great. Definitely a heavy call burden as far as frequency of call, but slightly less busy/stressful.

Definitely agree with above for Maimo, St Luke's, NJMS and LIJ.

NS-LIJ probably is the best reputation-wise in this cohort.

Not much was posted here about SUNY Brooklyn, but I rotated there as well as one of the other programs listed above. Downstate is a resident-focused program with no fellows around and lots of autonomy, which is unfortunately located in probably the worst part of Brooklyn. It's a pain to get to and its not the safest neighborhood. Good for trauma though, and that's their strong point.

There have been recent changes in terms of staff - the program was recently on probation for not having enough attendings and I think their board pass rate was low as well. But they've addressed these concerns since. The main hospital is Kings County as the services at Downstate are all pretty small and the facilities are remarkably old and dingy even by New York standards, but they rotate through a bunch of other hospitals throughout Brooklyn and even in Staten Island which are a good deal nicer. Many residents live in Manhattan or the more gentrified areas of Brooklyn like Park Slope.

The residents get along well for the most part. There's a hint of what used to be a malignant atmosphere here, but it is really nothing like the NJMS description. There's still a pretty standard hierarchical structure though. Chiefs work the juniors hard but seems like its with the intent to make them better. Overall they seem happy.

They match pretty well for fellowships despite whatever recent challenges. Overall its a pretty solid program with some limitations in the areas of research/academics, facilities and driving/parking/convenience.

now that lists are in, any other thoughts?

Anyone have any thoughts on Cooper or the other NJ progs?