Chances, 3rd year

Well the "dick" side of me wants to point out that this question has been asked millions of times on OG and could easily be answered by doing a forum search. Then I would suggest looking at the info published from the 2005, 2007, and 2009 matches which could be found by doing a quick google search. I would then conclude by saying that you are obviously a bright, hardworking individual and certainly able to master the concept of proactivity. Unless, of course, you just wanted to show a bunch of people on an anonymous internet forum how awesome you are.

But since I'm in a pretty good mood I'll just tell you that the only thing hurting you right now is not being AOA. What you should do is focus on honoring your rotations, identifying the "top" programs you want to match at, rotate at those places, and excell. Also ask yourself why you want to match at a top program like HSS. Do you like research? Do you see yourself in academia? Or do you just want to win the penis measuring contest on match day?

Oh, and finally try not to be a douche when you rotate. Not saying that your post indicates you are one, just a helpful suggestion.

Touche, kind sir.

I've seen the match statistics, I've done searches, and I know I stand a good shot of matching. That being said, my question was about matching at a top-tier program. It seems like getting into one of these places is more of a function of "who you know" and not "what you know," if that makes sense. The sentiment I get is LORs and connections (pieces that I currently can't bank on) play a large role in making or breaking you once someone has passed the screening criteria (things I can bank on). Hence the "how can I proceed from this juncture" flavor to my post. So, how do I do it? Should I meet with my Chairman to build rapport this early in the year, or should I wait it out and just play things by ear?

And no personal offense to you or anyone who trembles at the concept of 'elitism in training,' but why should I have to justify wanting to go to a respected, well-funded institution to train? Where I want to go is my prerogative. Let me reverse the question, would you go to Central Montana U over Harvard if you had the chance? Don't be silly.

Oh, and I'm not a douche, even if my e-arrogance might give you that impression. Thanks for the input, much appreciated!

You go to a top 20 school, so that should inherently increase your chances of having an ortho program with well known faculty. That should, in theory, solve the "who you know" aspect.

It certainly behooves you to meet with an advisor and/or ortho chairman early on so they know who you are, but you also have to make sure that when you rotate you work hard and leave a good impression with the folks you work with. Hard work and a good attitude on your ortho roations are the top things that will affect your chances at matching at a top program, or any program for that matter.

Finally I don't care why you want to train at Harvard or HSS. The reason why I put that last part in my post was for your benefit, not mine. You have to ask yourself what you want out of your orthopaedic education. Because I can assure you that there are things that "Central Montana U" can offer over Harvard. In fact, I train at a community program that gets very little play on this site. However I would choose it 10 times out of 10 over a place like Harvard or HSS. People have personal reasons for choosing the place they want to train and it's very naive to choose one place or another because it happens to have a sexy name.

Absolutely agree with you, Agent 13.
The name of a place isn't everything, but names are important for connections.

Best of luck Porkrinds.

porkrinds,

I must admit I'm a little confused that in all your "searches" of the forums that you didn't run across anything to do with matching at what you term a "top tier" program.

I get a kick out of seeing these "chances" posts over and over again. It seems there are two types of posts including the "I know I have good stats, here they are, but please tell me I'm going to get in", and the "I know I don't have great stats, here they are, but please tell me people sometimes get in with poor stats." Most, like you, have "done the searches", but they post anyway as if to say, "I know, I know, but my situation is different." You must have noticed in your research that the answers to all such posts are exactly the same just stated a little differently. You yourself said you can bank on passing the screening criteria.

That is the other interesting part of your post. You're confident you'll get past the screening criteria, you've learned that the top tier programs are more about "who you know and not what you know". You know you need to get good LORs and you even have a plan for your next step which you form as a question, "should I meet with my Chairman and build rapport this early?" Well . . . yes, if you need someone to tell you that.

If you really do want advice, I'd have to agree with Agent13, that you should ensure that what you are looking for is found in what you term "top tier" programs. Those places certainly are top tier in terms of research, and have other advantages. However, the Central Montana type programs offer an operative and clinical training experience in a true community setting that all the research dollars in the world cannot buy. It depends on what you want.

You also mentioned your own "e-arrogance". If you really do want advice, I'd say try hiding that on your rotations and during the interviews. I don't know what personality they're after at those "top tier" places never having applied to them, but I'd imagine they are equally as turned off by the "e-arrogance" as we "non top tier" folks are.

Good luck with the match. I hope you get what you're looking for.

To the original post - I would also start getting honors in your rotations. Or, figure out why you haven't been. With testing skills like yours (261), I would imagine it's something on the ward - maybe the e-arrogance the most recent poster mentioned is coming through. Stuff like that can have a detrimental effect come application time.

Good luck.

porkrinds you got your ass kicked on here, I hope that you can take to heart what was said thought. I think where i train is clearly considered a top tier program. Last year as per my PD the average step 1 score for people interviewed whom where not med students here or rotated was 252. You have good numbers, but I assure you, if you come off as you did in this post you will not get in here at least. Also the other posters are 100% correct, I choose my program more because it was in my home town than the fact it was top tier. Community programs can be great, I have friends that are having the time of there lives operating as juniors while I am in the lab pounding out papers, IRBS, IACUCs and all other kinds of bs paper work. I am not complaining and love my program, but you need to know what you want. Good luck to you

The e-criticisms of my e-arrogance have e-withered me down. In all seriousness, thanks for the advice guys, my initial posts were meant to be entertaining and educational (and they were, for me at least).

What I'm really curious about is whether it would be detrimental to my app if I only started networking during my 4th year. Obviously 3rd year rotations are a bitch and I don't see the point in meeting with faculty now if I can't commit to research or what not. In terms of getting LORs, do people usually schedule Aways and hope to get recommended by folks at those institutions? Would it look OK if I had 2 away LORs and 1 LOR from my PI - without getting a LOR from a faculty member at my home program?

Also, do most people do aways at programs they're very interested in? I've heard that sometimes its better not to do an away at your top choice in case you screw up...

And I didnt' mean to offend anyone, I was merely 'joshing' with the central montana u comment. Obviously, things like personal fit, location, and camaraderie would mean much more than brand name in the end. However, I'm too naive in my training to have a gestalt about those things, and that's why elements like prestige and competitiveness hover on the radar more prominently. But again, where people want to go is their prerogative - I'm amazed by the amount of judgment passed on these forums. This isn't real life guys, come on, its the internet.

Hey Porkrinds,

Your logic is correct. 3rd year is a tough time to do some networking. However, there are some lighter rotations where you may not have commitments at certain parts of the day (Psyc is a great time). If you have time off when ortho rounds are being held, you can always drop by and show your face.

I dont think its a bad time to speak to your chairman and ask him/her what is the best course of action. Bring a CV with you so he can refer to it if necessary. Who knows, he may have a case report that is only a few hours of work away from submission...why not put your name on it!

I think having a LOR from your home program is always a plus especially because they have the longest time to know you, especially if they run into you on the wards or in the ER. That being said, if you don't like your home program, its not a deal breaker. A letter from your PI is a must if you want to aim for the academic programs.

I did aways at the programs I was interested in and I think its a good principle to live by, especially if you can afford it. Places look great on paper but may then have completely unexpected environments. I know it seems like you have to beg to let programs take you, remember that you are also ranking them, so you need to know that the program you get is the one you want...a decision that really can't be made in a half day tour on the day they interview you.

All the best.