Advise for Nondesignated Surg Intern trying to match ortho?

any thoughts??

sent you a PM

Ortho Static, would you mind sending me a PM too? I'm in the same dilemma as the OP. Thanks.

Ortho Static, please send me a PM as well. same like OP and Fibia. Thanks.

Can you guys PM me as well?
much appreciated, thank you!

I'm in a similar position - can you foward me the PM too? Thanks!!!

Can I get that PM info as well?

I anticipate I'll be in a similar scenario...with all these requests for PMs--can you post publicly?

Probably should have just posted it publicly first..
here's the message i was PMing.


"sorry to hear about not matching. i didnt match last year, did a prelim year and was fortunately able to match this year.

in terms of what to do, i think there are things you can start now. first, i would see if you could change any of your last rotations and do more ortho rotations.
i didnt do this (didnt even think of it) but i know of one guy who did and he matched at that program. he was only able to do one month but he did two one week blocks and got interviews at both of those places.
as a reapplicant its very difficult to get interviews.. i got 15 first time and 7 the second time.
i think doing some extra rotations could definitely help as you finish your 4th year of medical school.
not sure if i would recommend going and rotating at the program you will be doing your intern year because you will already be spending time w/ them i assume so you want to maximize exposure to different places.

i did an ortho designated prelim year at UCSF so got the same schedule as the ortho interns and got 3 months of ortho in. i ended up matching back at my home program from med school (which was my 2nd choice, very happy).

you already mentioned the obvious, in terms of busting your ass (which is expected).
if you can get in touch w/ anyone from that program now, even just introducing yourself and getting them on your side for when you reapply will be a big help.
my chair here at UCSF called numerous programs and another one of the peds attendings made a lot of phone calls as well.

either way, just realize its going to be a difficult year. its tough to motivate yourself to work hard when youre still unsure of what youre future entails.
i spent the entire year thinking i wasnt going to match and that i might end up in rads, anesthesia or pmnr.

if you can, maybe email some of the research heavy attendings and see if you can start helping w/ clinical projects now."

I have a question for those who didn't match. I'm finishing third year getting ready to start aways and getting ready for applications. To be honest I'm seeing that the possibility of not matching is very possible and I imagine there are more thinking the same thing. Would any of those who didn't match be willing to say what mistakes they felt they made and/or what they would have done differently?

See my post in the 'score of 213' thread.

I graduated in a couple of years ago and as I was single at the time decided to give myself 2 years to get into Ortho and I essentially lucked into my spot. This was the same time there were more unmatched US seniors than there were scramble spots.

The last two years have been hell but I finally got a spot. That being said I'd advise trying to do it again because the climate is worse than it ever was before. Scores have crept up 10 points over the past few years. There are more applicants and no significant increase in spots.

If you're going to the prelim route (which I personally advise) you gain clinical experience but being an 'ortho prelim' is a double edged sword and can prevent you from being taken seriously for a backup in gen surg (came up in every one of my interviews).

Your odds of matching the first time around in Ortho are 60ish%. As a re-applicant it is less than 10%. There is little you can do in the 4 months between scrambling and re-applying.

Consider this if you are going to dedicate yourself to Ortho

0) Re-evaluate why you are thinking Ortho. Talk to you chairman, program director, chief resident, AND dean.
1) Find a way to take the OITE if you can -- and crush it. If you don't think you can nail a 90th percentile intern score (and interns don't study), you're not going to be different.
2) Rank a prelim. I negotiated an Ortho prelim year and finished my prelim with 150 major Ortho cases. I did however go to a place without an Ortho Residency so the attendings loved the help. It gave me a huge leg up to succeed in my next year and was what helped me get my spot.
3) have a backup plan that isn't a pgy2 prelim. The advanced surgery prelim system is backlogged. You need a categorical spot the year after your prelim or you have a good chance of getting out of medicine. You'll get asked about it in Ortho interviews if you're in danger. planning in case of failure is much better than failing to plan.
4) Start research now. Work on it during aways. Get something that can be publishable in a year. Weekends and holidays are great time to work on this stuff. Add another away.
5) consider a year off to do some serious research. During the year go to every Ortho conference. get your face known.

If it was easy it wouldn't be worth doing. That being said there might be nothing you can do. ERAS can filter applications by step 1 score. Some programs cuttoff's are 99 or better and killing step 2 (or step 3) doesn't event matter.

One program sent me an email response to my letter of interest telling me that "in an effort to be transparent and consistent" I didn't meet their cutoff for an interview, not that they publish that criteria.


Good luck.