another can I make it into ortho thread

Man there is no way anyone could answer that question, because we do hear of people with lower scores matching all the time. You are a unique person, with a unique personality and CV, all of which we don't know enough about to answer anything.

All I can tell you is that the PD of my ortho program (on the west coast) would never see your application because he sets his filter at a step 1 of >230 or higher. With that being said, if you rotated at my program, you would get an interview. And if they loved you, who knows.

But from simply looking at charting outcomes, it seems like you would definitely have an uphill battle. You would probably need to jump on top of your sub-i's immediately as many are probably booked now. but yeah, sorry but that is all I can say based on what I know about you and my program.

Tablchee,

It is hard to say what your chances are as there are too many variables to count. That being said, my app was very similar to yours as far as step 1 and grades. However, personality goes a long way. I applied broadly and got several quality interviews that my peers with better CV's did not. Also, once I got an interview I had staff go to bat for me making phone calls etc. I even had great post interview contact from programs letting me know that they were really interested in what I had to offer.
On the interview trail (and at my home program), it was pretty easy to see who would not match. If you are a douche bag it will be known. Even if your staff writes a decent letter, PD's talk to residents and to each other. So if you are a genuinely cool person that works well with others "fits in" and loves to work hard, you will match. If you are all brains and do a mediocre job in the OR and on the wards, and undercut your peers to make yourself look better, the residents will see it and relate that info to the powers that be. So, long story short. If you want it, go for it. I know rock stars that did not match and below avg. guys that matched at great programs (myself being the latter). Hope this helps.

Thanks! Those responses help. I am very late in the game so have no away rotations set up and not even a sub-I at my home school set up yet. If I do 1 sub-I at my school and 1 away, is that enough? Am I too late to even get an away at this point?

Say I do that and improve on my step II, and considering I am not the greatest test taker but get a 230-235, (which I feel is realistic considering most people improve on Step II), will I still get filtered out of those programs that have a 230 cutoff for step I?

I like the field a lot, but don't want to go through the nightmare of not matching. If I apply to 100 programs will I be able to land 10 interviews?

I am very personable and get along with EVERYONE. I love working with people - patients and physicians alike. I don't know if I am a true "ortho personality" but I do go to the gym to run/lift, enjoy playing/watching sports, and enjoy hanging out in general. I am a hard worker but not the best test taker - which has hurt me in medical school.

Also, I don't know what my surgery grade will be and I am assuming that will carry heavy weight in my application. Judging from the rest of my grades I don't think it will be higher than a HP, but I will work my ass off regardless for the H as I have done in all my other rotations.

You guys are right, it does depend on each individual person. But if you were in my position, and did not want to go unmatched, would you apply ortho, or just settle for gen surg?

I know sometimes circumstances dictate things that are beyone our control, but if I could do anything at all about it, I would not "just settle" for anything. Go for it. You might have to spend a year doing a research fellowship. That would be a great experience. And if you really want to do ortho and not gen surg, it will be worth it.

Good luck.

tablchee,
My advice is to do as many aways as you can (at least 2 if not 3 or 4). Make sure you do them at places you want to go and would have a strong chance at matching (ie. probably not HSS and Harvard for example since they tend to have ALOT of highly competitive rotators). Try to mix it up geographically as well to show programs you are willing to go any where.

You can't do anything about your Step 1 or past grades at this point, but you do control how hard you work during your aways, which can make or break whether some one matches. If you are as personable as you say, then this is your best bet.

Make sure you maintain a strong relationship with your home program over the upcoming year. You want to have their unwavering support regardless. A phenomenal impression during an away and people going to bat for you are those major intangibles that no one can measure but are extremely important for matching in ortho.

Good luck!

How exactly do you ask people to "go to bat" for you? I've met with my chair a few times and talk with several other people in the department whenever I see them around but many of them seem very interested in keeping the people they like within their program. I don't dislike the program at the school I go to, but I might be interested in going somewhere else possibly. I've heard so many people say that you don't want to let residents and attendings know that they're not your 1st choice and I just don't see how that is compatible with asking people from your home program to call other programs on your behalf..

When I didn't match last year, I didn't know what to do. So I basically just starting going to every single thing I could think of (morning rounds, didactics, conferences, grand rounds, journal clubs, research days, etc, etc). After doing that for a couple months, I literally had attendings approach me and state that they were going to personally make sure I matched this year. You don't ask, you bust your butt so people want to help you.

In my opinion, these are the key statements regarding your future... As other posters have commented, you need to really soul search how badly you want ortho. If you want it bad enough, then you'll go through the "nightmare of not matching" if thats what the journey takes you through. Take it from someone who has a similar application as yours, who applied to 80 programs (got 8 interviews) and went unmatched, did a research year, applied to all 145 programs (got 8 interviews) the second year and matched, that when that day comes it makes the "nightmare" all worthwhile. After i didn't match the first time, i talked to a whole bunch of people, all of whom matched after going unmatched previously. There were stories of people who did multiple research years, a prelim year, clinical fellowships (i.e. ortho house officer positions), etc and matched up to 5 yrs after graduation. So you have to really dig deep and determine how bad you want it, because I'm of the belief that if you want it bad enough you'll be able to achieve it, just maybe not in the timeframe that you envisioned.

But with applications such as ours, I would prepare for that outcome (as much as you can!), if ortho really is what you want...

AS

Is there any places I can look for ortho research fellowships? or do I just set one up unofficially at my home school or somewhere else?

If I do this, is it better to apply and actually go through the matching process, or not apply for the match and just take my time doing aways and research rotations this year at my home school, graduate, and then start a research year somewhere else to improve my chances for the next match?

it seems like alot of the ortho research fellowships are posted here on black monday.

I would definitely apply and go through the match this year.

If I try to be strategic with where I do aways, what kind of programs should I aim for with stats like mine. I want to be realistic like you guys were suggesting, but which places do you know of in the Northeast and midwest areas that may consider an application with stats like mine. What I am trying to say is I want a program with a cutoff of 220 as opposed to 230 (if they exist). What schools do you know of that have matched applicants with stats like mine? I am very geographically flexible.

Make a list of what is important to you. Take that list and start researching programs. Look at their website, see if your school has alumni there, contact those alums. Find out where your faculty did residency and fellowships, especially younger faculty, and ask them about their programs. Talk to your PD, get to know them, they might be able to give you an idea of how applicants with your numbers from your school have done in the previous matches and where they have had success.

That being said, don't limit yourself. You want to use your aways wisely, but if there is somewhere you think is awesome but a reach, you never know, anything can happen. Plus you could get some great contacts out of it that could be helpful. I just wouldn't do that for all your aways.

I think that is great advice by the user above me. Especially rotating at schools where previous classmates have matched. The way I have my aways set up is:

1. One at a lower tier program where the senior resident came from my school
2. One at a huge high powered academic program
3. One at a small community program

I think its great to have 1 reach but no more than that.

Would you advise this for all of us, including those who may have decided a little earlier on that we aspire to ortho and as such may have a few more experiences, e.g. research, etc.?

This sounds like a pretty good approach.

I don't think that my advice can apply to everyone. For the rockstars out their with greater than 250 step 1, multiple pubs in jbjs, all third year honors, etc, then you can probably feel comfortable rotating at all top ten programs. However I get the feeling that their are more applicants like what I described above then we think which means that not every steller person will match which is why i feel like its best to stratify your away electives. But I am just a common applicant who hasn't matched yet but I am also a good listener and this is the advice I have gleaned from talking to multiple successful applicants and attendings.

Stellar; I'm also a commoner who hasn't yet applied. This all sounds like good advice to me. I'm all for listening the wisdom to those ahead of us. Thanks for the words.

Do you think it I will be a pretty big disadvangtage if I go with the truth and say I always thought of myself as a people person with intentions to go into medicine/primary care, but when I did my ortho rotation I loved it and decided to go into it then (on interviews and PS). It is pretty far out and doing ortho now is a very last minute decision. I have no research for that reason, if I was interested in it from the beggining I would have done some research as a 1st year.

I think that as long as you are sincere, this will be evident in your personal statement (if it is well written), as well as in your interviews. Disclaimer: I am a med student who has not yet been through this process.

Good luck.

So as I am trying to get the things into swing with ortho, setting up away, etc. I just had a HUGE setback. my grades are not stellar as is. I was just given a incomplete grade in my peds rotation for a misunderstanding that I had about an assignment. I have now completed the assignment and have been talking to the professor about this, but it turns out the best grade that I can come out getting is a conditional pass. I do not know what ortho directors will say to that, but it really has put me down - and I feel like I might have lost any chance I had in ortho. I actually did well in the rotation and if this misunderstanding on my part did not happen, I would have received a High pass. That is actually a huge pitfall since it affects my rank quite significantly.
My advisor was saying that it is ortho and orthopods do not care about pediatrics but I don't know about that. I feel like if I already am a less than average student, that this will raise a red flag on my application and get me tossed out of the consideration pile. Someone please help me out! What should i do!!!