Double applying or rolling the dice?

I am in a much worse situation than yourself

My plan is to go for my dream 100%. If I don't match, I figure I can scramble into a Gen surg program. If I had to double apply, I'd need another PS, 3 more LoRs, and more money to interview for something I don't have the heart for.

Also, I am considering just doing a research year since Gen Surg. sucks so much.

I beg to differ...i went unmatched last year and am in a prelim spot this year. I was lucky enough to scramble into a prelim spot that is AMAZING. My program is all about getting me a job next year. The work is hard but I am not disrespected or looked down upon because Im the prelim. I am part of the team like everyone else. A general surgery prelim in not half bad. There is a TON to learn about being a doctor and if you find a spot that provides support, good letters, and maybe even a phone call or two on your behalf, it is all worth it.

thanks for the input

what are some good prelim year programs out there?

IMO, I would do a year of ortho research way before I'd do a prelim year.

I'm not saying there aren't good prelim spots out there, but ortho research >>> butt pus.

i wouldnt apply into gen surg as a backup unless youre willing to actually complete the residency. it is almost impossible to match into an ortho program as a pgy-2 because there are so few spots. if you dont match this year, do a year of research and reapply, if ortho is actually what you want to do.

Just FYI, both guys at my program last year who were prelims matched into ortho this year, one as a pgy 2 and the other matched as a 1. I have only gotten one consult thus far on perirectal abscesses.....there is a lot of cool stuff in gen surg too believe it or not.

All im sayin is the prelim gen surg spot gets such bad raps all the time and if picked wisely at the right program it can be very rewarding. I feel MUCH better this year than I did last because I already have people going to bat for me.

and BTW, the PGY 1 ortho year is barely different than what i am doing this year, it differs by 3 months

Oh boy, the non-disputed verdict doesn't seem to have reached yet.

more information welcome!!!

What makes you so scared to "roll the dice"? A 240 on Step II sounds pretty good to me.. Do you have red flags all over the rest of your application or something?

Ha, I do more general surgery trauma, 3 months vs. 2, than gen surg residents at my program.

I didn't match this year and chose a prelim and to reapply. I APPLIED to prelims and negotiated what I wanted.

I got 2 months of Ortho with Ortho residency programs.

Look at the scramble numbers from last year, look at the increase in class size. The odds are stacked against you regardless if you don't match. There are definitely more docs in my corner this year that have seen me work as a doctor and not a medical student that believe I should do this.

There probably isn't a right answer to the question, but I believe it will be harder to get BACK into medicine if you spend a year of time off doing research and not working clinically, especially considering the rising numbers of applicants and the stagnant number of positions. There were more ortho scamble spots than gen surg categoricals and even prelims weren't easy to get.

My whole plan was based around plannig for the worst and hoping for the best. When you're scrambling you have so little negotiating power. I believe a supportive prelim program makes you a better doctor and a better position than a research year with one person behind you and a a year away from medicine.

This was a concern of mine when I decided to do a research year after not matching. Turns out to not have been a problem at all. It took about two seconds to get back in the swing of things.

While I don't disagree that it is feasible, given the match numbers and overall increase in US senior applicants I think it will be a much bigger consideration.

Not long ago the US seniors applying for the match was pretty stagnant. There are an alarmingly large number of reapplicants in the past few years to all fields making things more competitive overall which is why I would be concerned about being out of medicine for research and applying to a competitive field like ortho a big concern to me at least.

FWIW I targeted 10 Gen Surg Prelims at places with Ortho programs I liked $65. I only interviewed at the ones I really liked and talked to ahead of time very frankly about my goals and plans.

So... I haven't received interviews yet... should I be applying to prelim gen surg programs or should I be making phone calls to ortho programs??

So... I haven't received interviews yet... should I be applying to prelim gen surg programs or should I be making phone calls to ortho programs??

i honestly wouldn't worry until dec. 1. from looking at previous threads, most people had 0-3 interviews before nov. 1st, around 8 between nov-dec, and >10 after dec. 1.

Except you are not "out of medicine". I spent 20+ hours a week going to clinical conferences, rounds, didactics, skills labs, etc., etc., while also doing research full time with several attendings. Most of the research involved reading a crap load of clinical articles so I could write the introductions and conclusions for multiple papers. The point of doing a research year is so you have MORE time to immerse yourself in ortho and make more contacts, not to isolate yourself away from clinical medicine.

in response to the concern about not having interviews at this point..

I think it's too early to throw in the towel, by far.

In october, I remember having my first interview given to me on october 15th. I received a total of 3 for october (out of 24 offers or so).. the rest poured in during november / december.

In regards to prelim versus research.. they all have their plusses and minuses.. but.. from my experience, the research year in comparison to a prelim year.. here are my thoughts.
Both are viable alternatives..

A research year will boost your CV, and help you build ortho contacts. It will also give you a chance to check out other programs (do week long visits or even a sub i). A prelim year will most likely not allow you to do any of these things, easily.

Having done a research year and jumping into residency, I was very frightened that I would not know what to do. It is amazing how quickly it comes back to you. In addition, most of what you do intern year, regardless of your medical school training is learning how to be the little scut monkey for the services. These skills do not require recent medical school training, or medical school in general. Most of what you do in intern year is listen to instructions, do what you're told, and ask what to do if you don't know. The only thing recent graduation does is make you a little more confident in your decisions, but regardless, you're still not going to be 100% confident. For instance, I was very nervous about my first night on call. After the first night, each night got easier and easier. That feeling, despite having months of experience, comes back every time you take call for a different service.

The truth is, most of what you do as an intern, if you have to make decisions, does not need to be split second. You have time to take a breath.. read a little, and then get back to a nurse or whomever about that.

That all being said, I know that a big thing for me would have been bittnerness. It is a pain to arrange interviews during an intern year, etc. etc... and working so hard, taking call, etc. etc. wears on you. I knew that I would be not in 100% spirits, and that would probably negatively affect me.. So.. I went with the research year.. and that worked, for me
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You didn't get in the first year, and had 24 interview offers the 2nd year? How did the first round of applications go for you, if you don't mind me asking?

That was the first round of interviews.. the second time I received less.. Like 19 offers.

Interestingly, in one of the places where I received a personal phone call from the program director/chairman who said I was 'ranked to match' and 'would do well' at their program.. I didn't receive an interview at all.

I matched a place that I interviewed at both years..

Oddly enough, my impression of the place I matched at..my first impression, I didn't like it.. the second time around.. I did.. go figure..

Part of the reason that I received less interviews may have been because I chose 'other' programs.. ie some of the places I interviewd at, I didn't even bother applying to. Also, I received a lot of different interviewsthe second time around.. so, by that accord.. either they recognized me, and decided they wouldn't bother (unlikely) or really, in the end.. it comes down to the luck of the draw many times..
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