The Gateway to Your Orthopaedic Career.
  Monday, 02 July 2012
  12 Replies
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over the past few years many rotating students have not matched at our institution and hopefully they didnt match at other institutions as well. it doesnt have much to do with board scores, grades, whatever. and its not much to do with personality or that other nebulous thing called 'fit'. since it seems to be more and more popular to do fairly well through med school and then just totally suck it on your most important rotations, i thought a handy guide would be save some people some time. here goes...

things ive personally witnessed from students (going into ortho) on their ortho sub-i:

1) ask for days off for leisure. going to that pool party is important... and, its gonna be awesome. programs dont want someone who is totally one-dimensional.

2) say you cant be on-call or round on the weekends because youre a third year. maybe this policy was specific to the institution where i trained, or maybe the school there was just full of chumps, either way, a great way not to match.

3) ask 'do i have to round on the weekends?'. if you want to unsuccessfully not match, replace this question with 'when are we rounding this weekend?' this will convey a willingness to work that programs looks for in people they want to actually be in their program.

4) go home early. you lucked out--you got the laid-back resident on the cushy sports rotation that gets done operating at noon. when he tells you, 'do whatever you want', definitely go golfing--do not find out if there are other services that might need a hand. you werent assigned to those other services, why should you help them. you dont want to break the rules, right? and definitely dont go read about upcoming cases or anatomy either--huge waste of time.

5) if a conference isnt that interesting to you, just leave. this is a great time to go eat. for double points, ask someone if you can leave. this will show them your profound lack of insight into how uninterested you really are and how poorly this looks.

6) show up on time. forget being early, thats for gunners and people who want to match.

7) dont take any of your insignificant responsibilities seriously. you could make sure the list is up to date, print out OR schedules, or see that there are dressing supplies for morning rounds, but the resident can also do that. they get paid to after all. you don't.

VIII) if you dont know an answer to a question, dont look it up. you're not supposed to know 'all of orthopaedics' --you're there to learn and thats it. your name badge says student and you're paying a lot to 'work' and wear that stupid badge-- these guys should really be teaching you.

9) wear scrubs everyday (and dont shave). its practically the uniform for the unsuccessfully matched.

10) dont take extra call. call is just plain hard, and you get really tired. sometimes, you wont even get to sleep or eat on call. why would someone sign up for that?

11) alert everyone when youre almost over your work hours. this way no one will give you more stuff to do--after all, residents never work more than 80 hours since the ACGME made all those rules.

12) ask a lot of questions in the OR. this shows youre interested. if its a difficult case, make sure to ask even more questions. this will help alleviate some of the stress of the case from your staff and residents.

13) if youre forced to do a rotation at your home program--and its not where you want to be--make sure you dont go the extra mile at any time. this will remind the residents and staff youre there to not match, and nothing else. its just such a stupid process, you wouldnt be here anyway, except some programs want a letter from your home program. what a waste of your time!

14) call in sick. orthopods are doctors, they understand these things--people get sick. they definitely wont remember how you said it was your buddy's birthday party the night before.

15) complain about how heavy a lead apron is. and complain about how hard it was to hold that leg while they put on the splint. this just shows people how observant you are.

call me a curmudgeon. i am. what i am not is some self-aggrandizing, hardliner- elitist. its still hard to believe, all these things actually happened. and, yes, in every case, it was a different student. sure, there are probably legit explanations for some, but its really gotten out of hand (sample size of one but even seeing a single student act this way once is enough). if you dont like to work, if you dont like being in the hospital that much, this is probably not the career path for you. you are there to prove to the residents, the staff, and mostly to yourself, that you can hang with working 100+ hours a week, read for cases, know anatomy, work every day for a whole month and still pretend to really be interested. why? cause i know, cause ive done it, and that the hardest week on a sub-i wont be anywhere near an even average week as a resident. if you dont want to or cant do it, then get out now. everyone will be better off. and if you simply didnt know any better, then thanks for reading.
13 years ago
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#57950
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Just went out to dinner with some junior/senior residents in my program that I matched (intern here) and they were already talking about the students rotating through our program.

Surprisingly, I would like to say that about 7 of the points listed above have already come to fruition...and we're only in week 1 of July.
13 years ago
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#57951
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If I could initiate a slow clap for you over the internet I would. As a recently graduated resident heading off to fellowship, I would encourage all you med students to read the original post and take it to heart. What we don't need more of in orthopedics are entitled people who dodge work, complain about work hours, or throw a fit because "I want to go home and see my kid." Everyone wants to go home early and see their kid, but the work has to get done and if you leave early it's just more work for your colleagues. By the way, you only get one residency to be a competent surgeon. Five years. One five year period to learn from your mistakes and figure out how to do things. Because once you get out from under that umbrella, and it's your name on the chart, there are no mulligans, only lawsuits. Like a former chief of mine once said, "You think ortho residency is hard? Well, it is. You can always go be a bank teller." No one is making anyone do ortho. It's not a prison sentence. But if you commit, you should realize what is involved in that commitment.

I used to tell my juniors that ortho is the Navy SEALS, and everyone else is the Coast Guard. We do it better, cleaner, and faster than everyone else. We should be setting the standard, not following it. Oh well, I guess there is a shifting tide in the mentality of med students these days. Nothing to do but complain about it on an internet message board. Maybe I'm just a curmudgeon as well, and if I am, then so be it.
13 years ago
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#57952
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Second all that - have seen each of these. You might add that the sub-I's asking the 3rd year to get the chief to let you out of a case at 10 a.m. because it's "boring to stand around and watch" is a sure way not to match. Unfortunately, that person learned nothing because he matched somewhere else.
13 years ago
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#57953
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Hilarious. Well done sir.

Also, ortho residents really are extremely hard working and team oriented people. If you can't fulfill those two easy obligations, please spare us.

Lastly, this fits well with #1 and #3. We had a rotator ask us yesterday if we wanted him to come in on the fourth. We told him it was up to him and that we would probably get out early regardless. Sure enough, he didn't show up today. Yeah, that went over well with the residents...idiot.
13 years ago
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#57954
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Wow, those are all great points and I'm glad to see them in print. I'd like to add to the "things to do to NOT match list":

Resident: "just got a call from the ER for compartment syndrome"
Student: "can we grab some lunch first?"

It seems to me that the real take-home here is that nearly EVERYONE who applies or rotates is academically-credentialed to be an Ortho resident. However, in a sea of applicants, there's really only room at the top for, uh, the top. You (students) want to be in the conversation as one of the top 3-5 applicants. At our program, historically this goes to the guys who NEVER seem to go home, who always manage to show up at the OR when their daily duties are done, and who somehow manage to figure out how to be available for call cases when they're not on-call. The only caveat to the last is that if your program schedules call days for the students, don't be the d-bag who plows ahead of the scheduled student in a jerk-like fashion. At least in our program, there's a bias towards the perhaps less-smart guy who is always busting ass, because that's the guy you can count on.

Oh and yeah, don't spend your entire rotation talking about how much you like other programs where you've rotated or read about. If you like it so much there, please leave now.
13 years ago
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#57955
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about to start a sub-i...knew most of those points, but just a (yes, serious) question:

how do you ask about weekend rounds/call in a non-annoying way? just ask do you guys need any help on call? where do you guys meet for rounds tomorrow (on a friday)? thanks.
13 years ago
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#57956
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i think the suggestion, 'when and where are we rounding tomorrow?' will actually work. this means, dont make plans, expect to be there all day and maybe night.

you should be assigned some call at your program. if youre not, then find out how you can take some--try for at least Q4 (dont step on any other students toes to do this however)--call is a great opportunity to learn something and meet other residents. i would also tag along the entire night... so dont wonder off somewhere and asked to get paged or whatever. when youre a resident, you'll find students rarely speed you up. so, i almost never called mine in, unless there was a case or something. sometimes, not even then. if you disappear, youll probably miss something.

when i was a student, a friend of mine took call Q2 on ortho. even on other rotations, he would take some ortho call. i still think thats ridiculous. the truth is, you'll probably rarely, if ever (depending on the program you're at i suppose), have to work that hard. you should be prepared to do this... and prove to others that you are able, b/c not everyone can and thats something you dont want to figure out when youre a PGY-3.

you may hear this adage on the interview trial: do you know what the problem with Q2 call is? you miss half of the good cases.
13 years ago
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#57957
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wow. McDonough has some anger issues here. This is not a forum for your complaining. What ms4 need to know are a few simple things....work hard, don't complain and just be a good guy. This virtually guarantees a match. It is that simple. Also, orthoguy123...you have been an intern for 2 weeks...a bit premature for you to be tossing around so much advice. Heres some though for you summed up in a word....chillax
13 years ago
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#57958
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I have to play devils advocate here. I don't think it's entirely fair to tell a student they don't really have to show up for rounds and then penalize them if they don't show up! As a chief resident, you should take responsibility of medical student education and make a call schedule for them. It should be clear when they are expected to be there and when they are not. Some have kids, families, problems they need to deal with. Ultimately students will show their true colors. If they are late, not writing notes, helping gather splint material, dressing changes, or checking in with the junior stuck in the ER to help them in between cases then so be it. It will sort itself out. However, I would encourage my fellow senior residents to create a structure for them. They are not from your program and have no idea what it's like and how it's different from their home program. Spend 15-20 minutes at the beginning of the rotation to orient them, tell them the expectations, give a call schedule, get to know their names, create a level playing field, and then see who is a good fit for you. We need to abolish this culture of "I did it like this and suffered, so will you" or "read my mind silly med student", "do what you should, not what I tell you." These are antiquated ways of deciding who is fit for ortho and who isn't.
13 years ago
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#57959
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As much as I agree with the original post, I also have to agree with this one. I remember it being very frustrating going to Sub-Is and realizing half way through that residents' expectations for me did not match what they were telling me to do. I understand that a sub-I is different than a typical med school rotation...they're called "audition" rotations for a reason. They should be competitive. But, residents should be straight forward in their expectations. You can make a rotation as difficult as you want while being honest and I guarantee you're still going to separate out the "top" applicants.

At our program, the rotators are required to take Q3 call...trust me, by the end of the month you can tell the dedicated from the posers. I had med students who stopped answering their page when I would go see a consult in the ER at night. That made it easy to not rank them and I doubt they were surprised. This works better because really it helps the student realize they may not be cut out for ortho. If they go through the whole month thinking they're doing ok, we're not doing them any favors. They may still match somewhere and make a horrible resident.
13 years ago
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#57960
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So much advice? I said to be a team player and work hard. It's funny you criticize a resident, but there are hundreds of medical student opinions on this board which are rarely questioned. Strong first post, Jojo.
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