Learning Disability Question

Have you ever considered the possibility that maybe you're just an average med student? I am sure PDs are not allowed to discriminate based on your "disability" but secretly I think they would. PDs pick applicants that will make great residents when they hit the real world and everyone knows you won't get time and a half in the real world.

Although I appreciate your honesty, I have to say I think you are completely wrong about your thoughts on the "real world." If you think the "real world" is akin to reading though a series of clinical vignettes and answering multiple choice questions, then I'm sorry to inform you that you are sorely mistaken. Especially in a specialty like orthopedic surgery where hard work and a great surgical skill set is much, much more important than reading fast. It's funny to me how quick people are to judge. I go to a top 10 medical school and was getting in the top of my class on every exam the first two years of school when we had very few time constraints on our exams. This gave me plenty of time to read through the cases at a comfortable pace. If you don't believe in learning disabilities and think people are either smart, average, or dumb, I think you are not only wrong, but in the wrong profession. But what do I know, I apparently don't live in the "real world."

Well first I must say kudos to you for admitting you have a "Challenge".
It has been experience that orthopaedic surgeons do not have to even read, so dyslexia may be considered a strength because all of our xrays are actually mirror images. So turn that frown upside down.

In addition, there has been a resent movement by the aaos for diversity in orthopedics. I am sure you can plead a case to the governing borard and be granted a special spot at a very "special" program.

Considering about half of the residents cheated on the OITE last year anyway, I do not think anyone would frown on you for taking 48 hours to answer 275 MC questions.

What other special gifts do you bring to the table? I for instance am a sarcastic SOB, with a passive agressive teaching style.

My best advice is to buy an XBOX 360 and practice video games and you will be just fine running a scope, and there is little or no reading involved in arthroscopy.......So keep your head up.

I have succeeded despite what some may say is a serious personality disorder. On one of my away rotations, they said I was unfit to be an orthopaedic surgeon. Despite this place serving as the island for the misfit toys, I continued to find a place that was willing to send me to psycho-social-therapy and make me into the model orthopaedic resident I have become.

I can only thank others for recognizing that my 'challenges' could be converted into my narcistic strengthes.

Jeff Smoker gave me some great peyote and told me to respond to this post with caring and compassion.

In my opinion, it seems unlikely that average grades on shelf exams will impact your application that much in the long run, especially if you’re kicking ass on the clinical stuff. An average grade on Step I is going to be more problematic though…Have you considered going to a learning specialist to see if there are any strategies you can employ so that you can do better on Step II within the time constraints?

Unfortunately, I think you’re going to find a lot of people within the ortho world who don’t recognize that a learning disability does not mean that you’re not intelligent (see for example DHT’s response). If it were me, I’d try to do everything I could to hide it. However, I’m certainly not speaking from a position that’s anywhere near more knowledgeable than your own…this is just my opinion. Do you have ortho advisor’s at your school whom you could speak to in confidence?

spiff21,

Thanks for your reply. The reason I am concerned about average grades on the shelf exams is because at my school only the top 15% of people can get honors, top 30% get high-pass, and the rest just get pass. Since pretty much everyone gets good evaluations, the only thing we have to set us apart is the shelf exam. Thus, average scores = all passes. I do know ortho docs at my school, but I do not want to disclose to them that I have this "problem" unless I decide to get the extended time (for the same reason you mentioned that most ortho docs are probably not that understanding of learning disabilities). I have a great relationship with many of them (doing research with one) and I want them to continue to look at me as a great applicant with a not-so-great score. I wouldn't want to ask their advice and have them change their minds especially since they will be writing me letters and "going to bat for me."

To Sir Richard Toby Wang III, MD

Yessir, that peyote was killer man. My friend and personal dream walker/ guide on my vision quests, Chief Donkity Donk has the hookup. And I believe you handled the OP with care and compassion, as befits your personality.

As for the original poster. Are you related to Buddy Ryan? He was a great defensive coordinator in the NFL. I get it. You write onto an orthopedic forum with orthopedic residents for their opinion, and then you get defensive when they tell you the truth.

I understand your attitude. It's part of a phenomenon called "The pu**ification of America" I'm sure that when you played tee ball, or in the bowling league, or took Rex Kwon Do down at the neighborhood dojo (BOW TO YOUR SENSEI), EVERYONE got a trophy just for participating. There are no winners or losers in life, everyone's just "satisfactory." So you probably think that you're entitled to a shot at whatever you want to do just because that's what society has taught you. Hell, I'm pissed because the Miami Heat hasn't called me up offering me a contract. Yeah, I'm a short white guy who's slow and can't jump, but dammit, everyone should have a shot, right? I want a ring!

WRONG. If you can't measure up on an the playing field with everyone else striving for the same goal you are, then I'll have to cite the well known precedent known in law circles as "Tough vs Tit*ies."

No one in residency is going to have any sympathy for you if your excuse for poor performance is "learning disability." Not your co-residents and definitely not your attendings. In the "real world" which you have so much scorn for it's called "not measuring up." I know it's a painful realization, but if you can't do the same job under the same conditions as everyone else, than you shouldn't be doing it, especially when someone's health and well being is in the balance. Do you think the judge at your malpractice trial is going to bang his gavel and dismiss the charges once he finds out you have a learning disability? Prolly not

So here's my advice to you. Take your tests exactly like everyone else. Bust your ass. Do whatever it takes to achieve your goal. If you get it, great, then you achieved it the right way. If you don't, then hell, you gave it your best shot and there's no shame in that. Don't backdoor people shooting for the same goal as you because you weren't endowed with the same abilities. That will taint your achievements and people WILL resent you.

Life isn't fair and all men are NOT created equal. Not everyone is made to play in the NFL, not everyone is made to be an F-14 pilot, and not everyone is made to be an orthopaedic surgeon.

That peyote's wearing off. Great catharsis. Time to go sit in the sweat lodge and work on my abs.

Smoke 'em if you got em

Jeff

WTF. I never said I don't believe in learning disabilities or that people with them are stupid. All I am saying is that disability or not, you will be held to the same standard, so you might as well start now. I have not judged you and have no idea why you are so defensive when I gave you my honest opinion on your question. The irony is you berate me for "judging you" (which I did not do) and then you preceed to judge me by putting words in my mouth and telling me I'm in the wrong profession....

In regards to reading not being important: I read a lot as a resident because I have to. I read my dictations, I read other people's notes, I read for cases, I read the literature, I read my text books, I read op notes. As it is, I still don't have enough time to read everything I need to. Believe it or not, you will probably have to read too. Becoming an orthopaedic surgeon is a lot more than getting some l33t skilz in the OR. Reading fast is not important, but there is a LOT to read and there are only so many hours in the day. This is not to discourage you by any means because there are ways to overcome this, and the first step is not for asking for special treatment.

Orthomatic, I am very proud of your for going to a top 10 school and being top of your class. With AOA at a top 10 school with average standardized tests and good away rotations, you will have no problem matching in a great program. Just don't use your disability to get special treatment and you will be more than fine. That is my advice. I guess I should have spelled it out a little better in my first post, but I did that on a smart phone and it takes forever to type.

I qualify for time x 1.5 at my school but have been told that it's virtually impossible to get extended time on the boards. This is most likely true in your case. You generally have to have a long-standing substantial disability to qualify, like legal blindness. Anyway, I have not used the extra time on my tests and I'm doing very competitively, I just have to work harder than I otherwise had to. It's tough if you're already maxed-out on study time, so I don't know what you should do, but I would not personally recommend using the extended time.

My advice : forget about asking for extra time.
First, it will likely be frowned on my program directors. They want applicants that will pass the ABOS boards - I doubt you would get extra time those.

Second, the fact that you were not 'diagnosed' with a learning disability until your third year of medical school is also going to bias opinions. You evidently did well enough in college and on the MCATS to get into a good med school, but did were not diagnosed with reading problems until your shelf exam scores did not meet what you feel to be your true potential.

Please don't take it personally, but you asked for an opinion. Before you get defensive, I was diagnosed with dyslexia in third grade and have never asked for any accomodations at all. You just are going to need to find a way to get it done or do something else - sorry if it isn't what you want to hear.

To respond to Orthomatic.....

FWIW: I DO believe in learning disabilities and I think that people are either smart, average, or dumb. Intelligence (or lack thereof) is spectrum that does indeed exist. To state such, while considered politically incorrect to some, is simply stating fact. To say that this is not true would be to say that we are all equally intellegent, but everyone simply has a different type and severity of learning disability. That is like claiming all humans can jump equally high, but some humans have more of a "jumping disability" than others. Does that then mean that (to use the Miami Heat example from above) that those with "jumping disabilities" should be allowed to lower the basket or carry a three foot step stool when trying out for the Heat? Or that the Heat is wrong to not consider a fat, 5'4" middle age man for their team? Of course not. Bottom line is that you may be the most intelligent guy in the class, but rather than rely on extra time, you should work to overcome your reading problem. Like it or not I believe most residency directors would feel the same come rank time.