Opinion Poll: Top 5 Residencies

This is always a very interesting thread. What some people think are the requirements of a top residency are not what others think. Usually ends up boiling down to research dollars and institution reputation. However, it may not correlate well with how good of orthopedic training you'll get there. The best "known" programs may not necessarily give you the best training.

I'll start with 2: HSS and Campbell Clinic

1. The program where you match
2. The program where you match
3. The program where you match
4. The program where you match
5. The program where you match

Any program you match at will train you to be a competent orthopaedic surgeon. Any program can get you into a "great" fellowship. Point is that this whole rankings thread is always crap. Good luck this year to all and remeber to ask yourself on every interview... "could I really spend the next five years of my life in this place?".

Boneblaster, I highly doubt that all residency programs are equal... it seems that that is what the people who aren't at the high profile residencies like to say. Are you honestly without any opinion? Feel free to mention where you train/trained since it is "where you matched", but please spare us the crap that "wherever you match" is the top residency program. All I'm looking for are people's opinions, not the definitive top 5 residencies of all time. If you can't play along, I'd rather not hear your "groundbreaking" insight on the matter.

Man, that is harsh.

bones (oh i'm sorry, boneZZZZ)-
first of all - you're a moron. second of all, see number one.

there is NO SUCH THING as the top five programs. what you want out of residency is likely to be VERY different than at least 50% of what your colleagues want.

in order to be an accredited program, all residencies must fulfill a minimum amount of requirements, such that graduates of said program can go out and operate sans fellowship.

that covers about 80% of your training. now there is 20% to spread around to different areas; this is where programs differ. do you want to get as far away from research and academia as possible? then a community program may suit your needs. do you want to be a chairman? better try one of the high-powered academic programs that will appear on the lists to follow. do you want to concentrate on sports? go somewhere where you will have a scope in your hand early and often.

so the top five programs as viewed by the community person are going to be very different than those viewed by the academic gunner.

the point is, what might be right for you, may not be right for some.
a man is born, he's a man of means.
then along come two, they got nothing but their jeans.

but they got, diff'rent Strokes.
it takes, diff'rent Strokes.
it takes, diff'rent Strokes to move the world.

alan thicke really is a genius.

Bonez, way to endear yourself to the board. You've already made lots of friends, and I'm sure you match this year with such a nice attitude.

Why don't you start a thread that asks what the Top 5 Colors are? Or Top 5 Words? The point those guys were trying to make was that there are different criteria for everyone. And because of that, you are going to get an infinite number of combinations. So there really is no point.

And what BoneBlaster said was true, really. If you can't appreciate that, you've got a lot of work ahead of you. Every program will allow you to become an Orthopaedic surgeon. That's what counts. The most well respected Orthopods in the country came from a hundred different programs. Your training will depend somewhat on where you go, but mostly on how much you are willing to put into it.

Now go and set up that new gmail account so you can change your login name on Orthogate, because few are going to help you here now. And if you are into breaking anonymity here, please give me your name so I can ensure that you'll not sully my great program.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that I'd like to get people's opinions, hence title: Opinion Poll. I'm sure all of us are aware that one program may not be another's top choice... the purpose of the post was meant to get an idea of what programs might be worth considering, nothing more. Everyone, feel free to qualify your top 5 in any way you see fit. The post was only meant to spark some conversation on why people like certain programs. If everyone's top 5 programs are completely different, then maybe this post is pointless...but at the least, it allows some people to see what programs are considered "top 5" by nameless, other people who also visit the orthogate forum. I want to "publicly" apologize to boneblaster for being a dick. That was inappropriate. I was just frustrated because that in no way answered the post or added anything that orthodoc did not already mention. What fun are 20 posts saying " that is impossible to determine"? I'm fairly certain that even though we've been trained to regurgitate facts for a good portion of our lives, all of us still have opinions. So feel free to give your opinions...or not. I think we all understand that they all won't be the same.

I disagree that there is no such thing as "top 5 residencies". Yes, everyone who matches is lucky to have gotten a spot, but some residencies are better than others. It is true that people may be looking for different things out of a residency( lots of operative experience vs lots of research, etc) but not all programs are created equal. yes, they all meet accreditation standards but some are above and beyond those standards. Just because someone states that program X is in the top 5 it does not undermine or belittle the training that someone else will receive at program Y.

Ok, I'll play:

1. University of Arizona
2. University of Colorado
3. University of New Mexico
4. University of Kansas (Wichita)
5. University of Kansas Medical Center Program

I really want a nice outdoorsy atmosphere for when I'm not in the hospital, and with family close by these will trump any others. My main priority is family and a nice place to hike.

I'd be wary of the US News rankings. Those rankings are based on patient load and number of nurses, etc. So you really have to be careful about confusing those rankings with resident training. Sometimes the best training will be at a little known community hospital.

The class last year interviewed at a lot of the same places, and none of them had the same Top 5 on their rank list. So I think that goes to show that it's as different as favorite ice cream flavors. You get a feel for the program and how you fit in, and you try to go there. You could say that programs like Harvard, Yale, Columbia have big names because they are Ivy League, so they would be the top 5. But I think you'd be wrong.

The whole point of my original post is that the more perspective I get on the whole "rankings" thing (i.e. further into training), the more I realize that trying to quantify and rank places is, in general, a bunch of crap. I could have easily rattled off my top five as a fourth year med student and even as a PGY-2, but now I truly believe that most all programs get you to about the same point. The only difference is how you get there and how much you enjoy your surroundings while doing it. Not trying to be profound or anything, just trying to give you some perspective.

Boneblaster,

I agree entirely with your post. However, it is important to realize that if you want to remain in academics it is important to train at a program that has big names. These guys/gals know everyone in the academic community and are able to secure top fellowship positions with a phone-call, as well as help find you a job when it is all said and done. Coming from a small community program you may very well be equally as skilled a surgeon, and prepared academically to do whatever you want, but you will not have the support of an internationally renowned faculty supporting you. If you are not interested in academics then this is all irrelevant.

come on boys, be nice to each other. we're all in the same boat here. we all know what we hear are the "top" programs, give the kid a break. here's the rumor mill from where i've been and who i've talked to. not a whole lot to back up these opinions, thusly dubbed opinion.

in no particular order

HSS
Harvard
Iowa
WashU
Duke
Penn
Pitt
Miami

This thread is frustrating. When people speak of the top programs, they are most often referring to the academic institutions. Bonez...if you are interested in academics, where you train DOES MATTER! This thread reminds me of my first year of medical school when rumors were spreading that "grades don't matter", that "you just need to pass", or the ultimate in hogwash: "What do you call the person who finishes last in his medical school class...a doctor!" Yeah...a doctor without a good residency!

Just having gone through the fellowship application process, I can tell you that the academic fellowships do place significant weight on who wrote your letters and where you train. The former is dictated by the latter. If you're at a small community program, you are at a disadvantage REGARDLESS of whether you think in the depths of YOUR mind that your program is the best one for you. You can name your top 5 with your program on every line until you're blue in the face. By no means does this mean you won't land a great fellowship...just that it's harder and doors don't open for you quite as easily. So please stop the BS and face reality...if you refuse to, at least do NOT MISLEAD OTHERS!

Bonez...there CERTAINLY IS such a thing as "top academic programs"...squeezing them into 5 is tough...my understanding is that most academicians would put the following into this select group: HSS, Mayo, Iowa, Harvard, Duke, Cleveland Clinic, Case Western, Pittsburgh,
Wash U, UCSF...I'm certain I'm excluding some that belong on this list. I would say the first 4 (HSS, Mayo, Iowa and Harvard) would be concensus on most academicians' "top 5". That's just my impression.