Opinion re: Southeast programs

One program that I think is worth checking out is Orlando Regional. It's a great community program, and they just added a resident this year to make it 3/year. I interviewed there and was really impressed. I wasn't even really interested in landing in Florida, and it still ended up in my top 4. The residents are all really laid-back and seem to enjoy hanging out together outside of the hospital. They get a ton of op experience (one of the chiefs this year said he had logged something like 2500 cases) but don't seem to be overwhelmed with the case load. Seemed to be very well-rounded, and getting good fellowships doesn't seem to be a problem. They claim to have a great lifestyle, and there is plenty of great golf and other outdoor activities in Orlando.

One program I thought was awesome when I interviewed was Atlanta Medical Center. It's a private hospital (i.e. much fewer drug user abscesses, etc) with excellent facilities and a great program design. From my limited impression, it seemed that the residents got to operate early and often (1 on 1 with attendings starting PGY2) and got a great breadth of experience. They even seem to get a good amount of trauma with multiple heli's picking up all the georgia car crashes. They seemed to have the money to do the "little things" that make resident life easier while still getting a ton of experience. I didn't rotate there, so of course I only got the buffed-up interview spiel and don't know the downsides of the program - but I got the feeling that it was pretty accurate.

As a disclaimer, I have no personal experience here, but I have read and heard good things about Greenville SC (the town and the program) and Medical College of Georgia (more about the program and less about the town). Again, no personal experience, but from what I hear, worth looking into. I have noticed that there is very little information out there (this site or elsewhere) about programs in the South. I am not sure why that is - all of these programs are competitive and yet there are so many that aren't ever talked about. Good luck.

I can comment on the Medical College of Georgia program. They have 3 residents on the 5 year track and 1 on the seven year. All subspecialties are covered except for oncology, which they are actively recruiting. The strongest aspect of the program is the resident camaraderie. They are like a fraternity and are extremely fun to be around. Of the places that I saw, the only program that had similar resident interactions was Emory. Every morning they have a brief conference about what came in the night before, and it is always a comedy show. The residents have a lot of fun and love what they do. And the attendings are the same way. Attendings and residents golf together, hang out, joke around.

The atmosphere at MCG is awesome. No malignant personalities. Call can get busy, but it rarely kills you. You get a good combo of blunt and penetrating trauma. You work out of the MCG hospital and the VA, which is connected via a sky walk. Facilities are ok, but the ortho department is nice and have a new sports medicine center. All the PGY-5's that I worked with were extremely proficient and skilled. No fellows.

The downside of MCG is the city of Augusta. Very affordable housing, but not the best place for single folk. If you are married, this obviously isn't a consideration. Atlanta, Savannah, Charlotte, Charleston are all roughly 2 hours away. Also, not really a research powerhouse, although the department has recently hired a dedicated ortho PhD researcher and now have a 7 year research tract. The hospital is about to open a new cancer and research center, so this may vamp up ortho research. The program is definitely on the rise.

As with anywhere else, when you are looking at programs in the South, it totally depends on what time of program you are interested in (academic center, big name, early OR time, community hospital, etc). You can find plenty of info about the bigger names, so I'll just mentioin a couple of the less talked about programs.

I'd have to second what gamma said about Atl Med Ctr. Did a rotation there as a 4th year and was very impressed and it seemed like a program that was just going to keep getting better. Plenty of trauma with extra stuff getting sent in specifically to the chairman.

Another one to definitely check out is Univ of Mississippi. Excellent trauma, awesome group of residents, great chairman, just added a tumor guy and another joints guy this year. Also has a 7-year research pathway like drillbit mentioned MCG is starting. It is moving into the 3rd year now. Not positive about MCG's setup at this point, but the 7-year spot includes potential for getting a PhD. Working on adding to the sports and trauma staff. Jackson, MS may not be at the top of a lot of people's lists, but it is a great town as long as you aren't looking for the big city lifestyle.

This is my first and last post, as I try to keep my opinions to myself. However, the topic of the University of Mississippi has come up. I rotated there as a visiting student so I have a peripheral understanding of the program.
Let me start off by saying that the Chairman is indeed a great guy. The Vice-Chair is also a stand-up guy who happens to be a big name. The Foot and Ankle guy is second to none and the same goes for sports. I guess what I am trying to say is that the faculty is probably the most underrated in the country. However, this alone is not sufficient for an "outsider" to rank them highly on any ROL.
I hate to bring it up but this place has the worst case of regionalism that I have ever come across. I would have to say that it is worse than anywhere I rotated/visited in the Northeast. The housestaff has a few great guys but in general most will push you aside like a roadkilled squirrel in favor of the native UMC students or Campbell clinic students (unless you can point out Tupelo, MS on a map--which of course I could not do upon arrival). It does not matter how hard you work...the guys native to the land will get the nod. I guess I am naive in that I expected my 140+ hours a week (without complaining / hamming up the fatigued look--a great move put forth by the natives from Jackson / Memphis) to be rewarded by some basic respect. This was not my experience at my other aways where everyone killed themselves (same hours, etc.) and was treated well. I mean, I worked myself into the ground for those guys and at the pre-interview reception they didn't even acknowledge me. Sorry for the digression.
But I will say that the program churns out some awesome, technically perfect surgeons. And, as many have mentioned earlier, the autonomy is unheard of. I saw a 2 do a bimall at 7pm post-call with his eyes closed...he made it look easy.
In conclusion, if you can tolerate the major-league bias then step up to the plate and rotate there. Just remember that you can work twice as hard as the hardest working native and still be invisible to the housestaff.

dude,

There is an aire of hurt feelings in your post. As a resident at UMC, I sincerely apologize if you feel that you were not treated fairly in Jackson as a rotator. I do appreciate your maturity in being able to point out some of our strengths after what was clearly a bad experience. I would however take issue with a few of your accusations. Like many programs, we do suffer a bit of regionalism. Most of our applicants are from the southeast and thus most of our residents are from the southeast. Your post suggest that we try to only take people from Jackson and Memphis. This simply is false. At present there is no one in our program from UT Memphis and of the last 3 matched classes at UMC, only 3 of the 12 attended medical school in Jackson. To be entirely fair, I can recall 1 guy from each of those med schools in the last 3 years who we the residents really liked but did not have match here.

A more fair accusation would be that we tend to favor rotators (like a lot of programs). This is well-known about us, at least around the southeast, and as result we tend to have a lot of rotators. Perhaps you felt crowded out in a large group of rotators. The best rotators are, as every person who has ever spent any time on this forum knows, the ones who work the hardest. dude apparently did work hard, but rather than speculate as to the reason for his bad experience I would like to re-offer advice to any rotator anywhere. (great posts on this in the past with great specifics)

Residents frequently discuss various rotators. We are looking for people who not only work hard but are helpful to us. An M4 who can be entrusted with increasing workload and responsibility over the course of his rotation will be a good resident and thus will do well here and elsewhere. There is also the nebulous notion of "fitting in". The "fit" is impossible to put into words but you all know what I am talking about. It is very important at most places who favor rotators, and it can't be faked by residents or rotators for a month (it can for a 1 day interview). In summary, at UMC (and other programs) the residents get a say in the ranking of applicants and we tend to care most about work ethic, helpfulness, and "fit" and less about how brilliant you are, how much research you've done in med school, and the very least about where you are from.

That said, if you would like check out a program where you will work hard, get great autonomy and exposure to cases, and be a part of a very close-knit team of residents, check out Jackson Mississippi.

any miami residents give specifics about your experience?
I know from searching that its a great place for trauma
and spine. However, also hear that not enough supervision
with trauma cases at night..etc. Any detailed
info would be apperciated. Thanks!

Does anyone know much about the ortho program at UAB? I'm starting med school there in August, and, at this time, I'm extremely interested in ortho (not sure whether or not that will change once things get going), specifically Sports and Foot/Ankle. Thanks for any info.

Started this as a new thread, and then realized this one was already going...


Can someone give me some info on some of the Southeastern programs for 4th year away rotations? I looking at the following and I can only do 2 away rotations (can only do 12 hours in one discipline at my school), so I want to get the most bang for my buck so to speak. I'd appreciate any help!!

Medical College of Georgia
Grenville, SC
UVA
Carolinas Med Center
Louisville
Wake Forest
Med Univ of South Carolina (Charleston)
Atlanta Medical Center

I am familiar with a few of the programs:

1) Orlando: ditto what was said already, very laid back, nice town, great experience. Great community atmosphere. Large case load.

2) Medical College of Georgia: town stinks if you are single. Also known as "Disgusta" by the locals....great Master's Weekend. Strong DO presence, not the top of my list. Went to med school here, had to get away.

3) Atlanta Medical Center: Very busy, privately owned inner city community program. Grady seems to get all the crap in town, AMC lots of blunt trauma. Rotate away your 3rd and 4th year, one on one with great Atlanta attendings. Residents seem VERY happy. Interviewed here and really, really liked it. Almost made the top of my list but pushed by my wife to rank closer to her home higher. New chairman is great, very interactive, and taking the program toward a more academic focus.

4) Emory- Bigger name in the area. Huge, Huge volume of trauma. Typical inner city program, hospital lacks funding, OR staff is often rude and NOT in any type of hurry to turn rooms, so you operate LATE. Great attendings, great Spine guys but they can be jerks and there are fellows as well. Research facilities VERY available if that is your thing. I think the operative experience and clinics (which there are LOTS of) help you in decision making because there is little supervision. Good for decision making, bad situation in my opinion. Didn't rank them becasue of this.

5) Greenville- Plush, excellent staff. Very private practice like. best benefits of all programs, especially the food court/free meals! Cheap real estate, very affordable town. Academia in a private setting.

Overall, most programs will provide you good training. Find a place you feel good at, and hope you match there!

Dragging up this old thread to figure out where I should try to do 4th year rotations to maximize my match success. I definitely want to end up in the Southeast. Anywhere from Texas to North Carolina would be great. I fully intend to discuss this with my home department, but I would like to have an idea before then.

I don't know if some of these programs are too competitive for me or not. Ideally, I'd like to know if I have decent scores for a program and if they favor rotators.

Basically, your average applicant.
Step 1 235

3rd year - grades won't be final until after June (boards), grades have been good though

Preclinical - grades slightly below average

Research - 1 ortho project between 1st/2nd year. Should be published by application time.

Some places that have made it onto my "very" preliminary list include:
(numbered for convenience, not for actual rank order)
1. U Texas SW Med School (Dallas)
2. Medical University of SC (Charleston)
3. University of South Florida (Tampa)
4. University of Alabama – (Birmingham)
5. University of Mississippi (Jackson)
6. University of Colorado (Denver) (not in SE, but it's CO..)
7. Washington University (St Louis)
8. University of Florida (Gainesville)
9. Medical College of Georgia (Augusta)
10. University of South Alabama (Mobile)
11. Emory University (Atlanta)
12. Jackson Memorial Hosp (Miami)
13. Atlanta Medical Center (Atlanta)
14. University of Kentucky (Lexington)

Any thoughts or comments are greatly appreciated.

i'm an applicant from the southeast and can give my $.02 based on programs where i rotated or interviewed. all disclaimers apply (limited time spent at each spot, biases, etc etc)

1. U Texas SW Med School (Dallas)
2. Medical University of SC (Charlotte) - applied/rejected for interview
3. University of South Florida (Tampa) - a new/restart program. don't have full set of residents yet. maybe will this year or next (can't remember) good amt of trauma, not a bad place to live at all. their reputation is TBD since it hasn't had a full grad class yet but the tampa area has plenty of stuff to keep a full residency program busy. (applied/rejected for interivew - bummer)
4. University of Alabama – (Birmingham) - not as bad a city to live in as some might believe based on crime. i've had a student from there say that they are a little on the malignant side, esp intern year. talked to a couple interns that matched at other places and they said most people in their class didn't want to stay. my interview experience was not too bad but still didn't rank them in my top 3 (applied/interviewed overall decent impression)
5. University of Mississippi (Jackson) - applied/never heard response
6. University of Colorado (Denver) (not in SE, but it's CO..)
7. Washington University (St Louis)
8. University of Florida (Gainesville) - has a reputation as a numbers program (ie 260's step I). really good program, great place to live (college town type place). lots of fellows and attendings with good reputations. (applied/rejected for interivew)
9. Medical College of Georgia (Augusta) - program that probably got a bad rap from some attendings leaving for different reasons a few years ago. supposedly have new faculty starting this year which will include peds/oncology. a program on the rise with hopes to expand to 4/year. put a lot of weight on work ethic given that many that match are either from there or rotated there. resident comraderie and family oriented are strong points. probably one of the closest bunch of guys i saw on the interview trail (applied/interviewed - in my top 5)
10. University of South Alabama (Mobile) - another program on the rise with a bad rap for a couple reasons (location, having to cover 3 hospitals on call). resident comraderie is a strong point, also family friendly (i.e. lots of residents married and with kids). mobile is not as bad a place to live as people think. got the feeling that rotating there can give you a leg up. great operative experience but the hospitals may seem a little run down, attendings will let you struggle (a little) to learn to operate on your own. adding a surgical simulation lab and adding attendings to address areas they feel they could improve on (recently added an attending from UAB) (applied/interviewed)
11. Emory University (Atlanta) - applied/rejected for interview
12. Jackson Memorial Hosp (Miami) - didn't apply, don't want to live in miami
13. Atlanta Medical Center (Atlanta) - applied/rejected for interview
14. University of Kentucky (Lexington) - applied/rejected for interview. i think they only take 2/year so they may but more weight in rotators/home students ...?


others

15. UT Chattanooga - another great comraderie program- residents really get along, comraderie is a strong point. community program but still get lots of trauma (have a trauma fellow). have a rotation in nashville 4th year to get more joints/sports which they think will go away in a 2-3yrs (expanding an existing surgical suite). another program that puts weight in work ethic (i think) so rotating may help, most residents from SE (applied/interviewed - in my top 5)

16. Greenville, SC - also has a reputation as a numbers program. just expanded 3 to 4 per year last year. have residents from all over, not just the SE. adding a joints fellowship this year. great peds with the shriners hospital there and really great attendings. also community program but with a lot of research and variety of cases (still get lots of trauma). rotating there may help but not much (applied/interviewed - in my top 5)

17. Orlando regional - residents seemed to get along great. most were single, several didn't own homes (i would call that not family friendly). a couple of the attendings asked wierd questions. overall, seemed very busy - knew a guy who did trauma sugery there and said some surg residents got overwhelmed but they definately made the point that their residency was stressful (applied/interviewed)

18. campbell clinic (memphis) - outstanding program reputation in the SE given attendings and operative experience. they run you into the ground early on but later years are much more laid back. residents seemed like a close group but not as close at augusta or chattanooga. bigger program and adding a large research component on top of already good research reputation (applied/interviewed - in my top 5)

one more note on female resident presence, for what that matters:
cambell clinic - none (none in my interview group of ~40)
augusta - 1
orlando - 3 (i think)
greenville - 2
chattanooga - none (a couple in my interview group)
south alabama - 2

While I now a little about several of these programs, I will lend a few comments to some of the programs on your list that I am a little bit more familiar with:

1)MUSC (bytheway, in Charleston) - Nice place, lots of volume, and all the services seem to be pretty busy. All the residents seem happy there and it seems like most of them have a connection to Charleston one way or another. I would say they probably favor rotators and home students(duh) but they seem to get a TON of rotators each year for only two 5-year spots and one 6-year spot. Residents are great and work very hard but seem to have a life outside the hospital, many married and with families. I got the impression that there was a lot of attending involvement and not as much autonomy as other programs I saw. Attendings were scrubbed and actively involved in each and every case, no matter how simple. This may or may not be what you are looking for. The attendings are very good. Hartsock (trauma) is supposedly a world-renown trauma guy who does a lot of pelvic/acetabular trauma. As far as exposure to different subspecialties, there is plenty. Each and every subspecialty has an adequate number of cases (based on my observations).

2) Atlanta Medical Center - Nice city, great residents and faculty. The new chairman seems to be making some very positive improvements to the program and the program is on the rise. They just got a new trauma guy (Ziran) who is supposed to be great and could bring a lot more to that program. It is probably true that Grady gets a lot more stuff in Atlanta but there is not a shortage of cases for the residents from what I can tell. All the residents seem extremely happy and are very easy to get along with. I didn't know what to expect when I interviewed here but I was thoroughly surprised and impressed by this program and they rose high on my rank list. The interview day made me want to do a second look. They definitely have some big names on staff as well. I already mentioned Ziran but also one of their hand guys is the hand guy for the Braves and they have the team physician of the Falcons and Thrashers on staff as well. I think this is a great program that not many people know about.

3) South Alabama - This also seems to be a program that is on the rise. Their attendings are stellar and the residents are great and seem very happy. There also seems to be a lot of stability in the program, something that I thought was important. Meyer is the chair and a great hand guy and easy to get along with. He seems to treat the residents very well. They just got a new trauma guy from UAB (Alonso) who is great and will probably do great things for the program. I would say the only subspecialty that is not covered well is spine (I guess oncology too but that is not unusual). This program seems to favor home-grown guys that went to medical school there. I think the majority of the residents (at least the ones that have matched in the last few years) are guys from South Alabama. They don't have too many people rotate through so it would be possible to do an externship there and shine/stand out if you are interested in the program. The only down side that I found when I interviewed there was the city. Some people love it and some people don't. I have talked to others that are not in medicine who lived in Mobile and they didn't care for the city too much. It's a rather small city and seems kind of dirty/old. Even the facilities where the residents work are old and somewhat run down. So, bottom line, the impression I got from my interview at this program was that it is a up and coming program with great attendings and phenomenal residents.

That's about all I can think about for now. Hope this helps. Feel free to PM me with more specific questions about these programs because I am familiar with them and rotated at a couple of them.

has anyone considered Vanderbilt? It seems like it has been left off of most of the southeastern lists posted previously. Its a great program and worth looking into, especially for an away rotation.

I just thought of Vandy as too competitive based on reputation of its other schools and programs. I don't know anything about its ortho program though.

Thanks for the info!

I've heard a lot of good about campbell clinic. Any word on how much of a numbers program they are? I've heard they one of the south's top programs.

Also heard good things about UT Chattanooga, at least the area/city. Super-competitive or about avg for ortho?

I'm currently a 4th year resident @ Atlanta Medical Center. I'll try to be as objective as I can be but take it with a grain of salt since I'm a current resident.

As wareagle have said, I really believe we're a program on the rise. Dr. Steven Kane is a stand-up guy and a HUGE resident advocate. He's working diligently to improve our program. He's already gotten an approval for a new arthroscpic/cadaver lab for the residents and the vendors are eager to help us with the lab. This will be a great resource for us to practice our arthroscopic skills and try out new implants/techniques.

There are only 3 trauma trained orthopods in ATL and we now have 2 of them. I've personally worked with Dr. Ziran and I would let him operate on me any day. He's a master surgeon and very fun to work with. He's a huge addition to the program.

AMC is a level-2 trauma center but don't let that fool you. We're only a level 2 center b/c we don't have an in-house neurosurgeon. We get tons of cold-trauma from surrounding counties. We're #1 in helicopter transfers and 90% of them are blunt trauma with a lot of broken bones. but don't let the volume of trauma cases scare you. I truly believe trauma is where you learn your basic operative skills.

The strengths of our program are the residents, early operative exposure, and outside rotations.

We take 3 residents/year (15 total) and we really enjoy working with each other. We're not a malignant program and the residents have a major input when it comes to how things are run. We are a diverse group but that's what makes us great.

As an intern, you spend 3 months on the ortho service and you're expected to help out in the OR as much as possible. Just this week, the intern and I did 2 tibial nails. He did both cases (skin to skin) under an hour. I just held reductions.

During 3-5th year, we do most of our subspecialties with outside/prviate attendings. I think this is a big bonus since you get to work with them one-on-one and learn from some of the best surgeons in the country.

Dr. Lourie is the Braves hand surgeon and he loves to teach residents both in the clinic and the OR. He's the main reason I've decided to do hand surgery fellowship.

Dr. Gillogly is the head physician for the Falcons and the Thrashers. You actually go out to the training camp and cover home games on the sideline. I'm a die-hard Falcons fan and this was a dream come true! He also lets you operate. He has his own surgery center and usually runs 2 rooms. So you're expect to start the case while his PA is closing in the other room. When I was on his rotation, I did about 70% of the cases as a PGY-3. If it was a simple shoulder or knee case, he wouldn't even scrub.

Ok, but enough about bragging. We really enjoy having rotators. We don't have an affiliated med school so you don't have to fight against the "home" students. We also don't have 30-40 rotators so you'll definitely have plenty of one-on-one time with the attendings and the residents. We usually average about 10-15 rotators per year.

like most other programs, we strongly consider our rotators when it comes to ranking them. You guys spend a month with us and we get to know you pretty well. 10 of the 15 residents rotated as students.

Atlanta is a great place to live and work, both for singles and married. the cost of living is definitely cheaper than other major cities. AMC is a great place to work and train.

We invite you guys to consider us when deciding your away rotations. PM me if you have any questions. Thanks!

While I now a little about several of these programs, I will lend a few comments to some of the programs on your list that I am a little bit more familiar with]

Thanks for the input!

MUSC: Seems like with that many rotators and so few spots MUSC may not be worth rotating unless you've some great numbers too. I really was thinking about rotating there...

Atlanta Medical Center: Not crazy about Atlanta, but good to hear the residents seems happy there. I may have to look more into this one.

Mobile: I like the city OK based on the few times I've been there. It's not too far from some pretty nice areas. Did the residents seem to get enough cases to be ready to go out into the community? I wonder why they don't get many rotators..?

If you are interested in North Carolina (state not the school) then I highly recommend an away with a letter somewhere up there.

Also, you cannot possibly have a list of the SE without Campbell Clinic on it. You can do whatever you want coming out of there. As a prior poster (I believe falsely) alluded to, they do NOT run you into the ground except on trauma and that will be everywhere. You do 6 months as a 2, and 3 each year thereafter. When you are not on trauma your life could not be more cush. You are 1 on 1 with faculty and they only work 4.5 days a week. I rotated, loved it, and it is ranked quite high on my list. Your best chance for an interview is to rotate there. Your best chance for getting interviews at surrounding programs is to get a LOR from CC and make sure to send it to the regional programs.

My biggest advice to anyone looking to apply widely is to rotate in a wide geographic area and get letters from EACH program you rotate at. Use those letters regionally b/c it will definitely help b/c it implies an interest in the region.

About a few other programs in the SE and Texas that i rotated or interviewed at...non-exhaustive.

USouthFl - will be one of the best programs in the SE in the next few years b/c of the staff and money they have. Unbelievable program, very high on my list.

Baylor - Had a lot of turmoil recently b/c of financial/political problems with Methodist. New Baylor/Rice/Texas Childrens Hospital merger will help immensely. New Baylor hospital coming on line in early 2010. Felt the staff there are excellent.

UTSW - will beat you to death, bring you back to life, and beat you again. Rumored to be losing trauma staff to other program. Borelli a good guy though committed to making it an academic program.