Program "competitiveness"?

You need to evaluate your own application and decide how competitive you are. An advisor at your school who has worked with past ortho applicants can be very helpful. There are many posts on this site as to the twenty top ortho programs, and yes these are all competitive. That said, even if you're a strong applicant, you'll need to justify to a small community program why you want to train there.

It's mostly common sense...if you're a strong applicant - apply anywhere...if you're a weak applicant - dont apply only to the best 30 programs in the country.

Good luck with your application.

I think you need to be careful with your logic, because there is no logic. Since you havent gone through this yet, your comment about a no name community program can be forgiven. Community programs are even becoming very competitive because its all about lifestlye to these people. The work less hours, get paid more, get better benefits, and most of the time get to operate more. Now I am not saying that Kalamazoo is as comptetitve as HSS....but you need to be careful thinking there arent people with 250+ that want to match at places like SUMMA and Grand Rapids. I was told one year all 4 people that matched at Grand Rapids had a 250 or higher on step 1. Now, I know people will say that there is more than step scores but a 250 is competitive at even HSS.

I got interviews at big name places and got rejected at Fort Wayne Indiana and other countless "less competitive" places....

So I think the moral of the story is that the community places can be just as competitive maybe just to a different type of applicant..

So I caution you as to think you will automatically get interviews at "less competitive" places because thats not how it works.

I agree with much of what perpetualpriapism has to say. There is no such thing as an orthopaedic program that is "not competitive." Just look at how few, if any, programs will not fill spots this year. The year I matched in ortho, there were three unfilled spots across the country and I would bet that those spots weren't filled because of alack of applicants but for a variety of other reasons. I think it would be fair to say that there are competitive programs and then more competitive programs but to suppose that all "community" programs fall into the lower half of the orthopaedic residency heap is a mistake. Just query some of the posts regarding some of the better known community programs and you'll see that there are alot of good things being said about some programs out there. That being said, there are university programs that are less competitive than some community programs for sure, but all programs receive way more applications for interviews than they need to fill. Orthopaedics is a very competitive field, without question one of the most competitive and there are applicants who are willing to go anywhere, match into any program, just to do orthopaedics. I would check the strength of your application, talk with MS4s who match into ortho, speak with a faculty member in ortho or one who knows the orthopaedic programs in the country and determine where you want to apply based on location and competitiveness. Each program will be more or less competitive based on its own merits, not whether or not it is a community or university program.

I would like to clarify my original question...I did not mean to imply that community programs are not competitive. I understand that they are, as are all ortho programs. This is exactly my point: as someone just beginning this process, I don't have a good idea of how to judge the competitiveness of any particular program relative to other ortho programs. When putting together my list, I want to make sure that I don't happen to apply to the 30 most competitive programs in the country just because I didn't know that they were the 30 most competitive! How do I find out which programs are more competitive than the average ortho programs and which are less so?

Thanks to everyone who already gave great answers to my original question, and sorry for not making myself clear!

As a general rule, you will get the most interviews in your region that your med school is in. I would apply to all programs in your region regardless of competitiveness... you can also apply to other programs that interest you, but you will see the greatest yield of interview offers from the schools that are closest to your med school....this is a generalization-- but its very regional...

Its hard to know what "type" of programs will like you, so I would advise applying to a minimun of 30 programs. You should apply to all different levels of programs so you can get a feel for what you like when you interview...

I would suggest applying to absolutely as many programs as possible. It may put the squeeze on your wallet but, matching beats having to do a year of prelim work or research and substantially reducing your chances of ever making it into an ortho spot. The more programs you apply to, the more chances to get an interview you will have. Definitely apply to every program in your region, even the big names which are more competitive than others. Also, find out which programs might be more interested in offering interviews to rotators and focus on these if you might be interested in ending up at that location. Also, do as many aways as you can to increase the number of interviews you might receive at places. For rotations I suggest:
1. One rotation at your home program for chairman's letter and attending support.
2. One rotation at another program in your region where you might want to match.
3. One rotation at a program you like outside your region.
4. One rotation at a heavy hitter big name program or a program that you would want to match in in an ideal world.

Another thing you have to consider in "competitiveness" is both your location and the relative strengths of your application. One thing I wasn't prepared enough for when I went out on the interview trail is the neverending barrage of questions about why I would ever want to leave california (from east coast and southern programs). Unfortunately "because I will go anywhere to match in ortho" was not a sufficient response. As stupid as it seems, many places will rank you lower if they don't think they can get you. As it turns out, I acutally liked some of those places outside of cali more than the cali programs, and ranked them higher! My point is that it is not ONLY a numbers game.
As far as relative strength - some programs are super research heavy so you will be less competitive there if you don't have alot of research, some places really emphasize the OITE and want to see high step I's but don't care as much about everything else, some places just want people who can handle their crazy ER so look for evidence of being really hard working over numbers. Some places take alot of "inside" canditates (rotators, home students, friends and relatives of faculty) so it's super hard to get in if you don't have a connection.
All these factors make it hard to assess competitiveness. Unfortunately, there is no spreadsheet deliniating what each program is looking for - and it changes from year to year. The closest you get is talking to people who have experience at programs; and whatever you can glean from boards like this and scutwork to attempt to assess the "culture" of a program.

gamma

Small point on my part, but I think the reason that programs may rank people lower when they get the impression, right or not, that an applicant has no genuine interest is because they do not want unhappy residents. I think this is much more the issue than feeling that they "cant get you." Having a resident that is not happy in a program can have a ripple effect.
Why would a program want an applicant who they suspect does not want to be at the program when there are so many qualified applicants who seem genuinely interested? This may be failed logic on the programs' part, but it makes sense to me. I think this is why you see so much regionalism. Also, keep in mind that for the most part we all look at the match from the applicant's view point in that specific year. However, program director's and faculty have all of their previous match experiences to consider. I venture that applicant's from the same region as a program are considered higher yield since historically the local applicants probably match more frequently all other things being equal. It is the same exact reason why it makes sense to apply regionally since those are going to be higher yield for interviews.

As disconcerting as it may be, everything that has been said regarding regionality (is this even a word?) seems to be true... at least from my experiences this year. I grew up in a military family and only spent 5 of my first 14 years in the U.S.. Since then, I've been in the Northeast for undergrad and medical/graduate school, so I definitely got the highest yield of interviews in the NE quadrant of the country. One my strategies was to complete away rotations in other regions that I was interested in (to both get the experience of the region and show to programs that I wasn't stuck on the NE). In my case, I chose the Midwest and Mid-eastern seaboard (some would call it the upper Southeast) for my aways. Although I did get shut out from many schools in other regions, I believe that these two rotations (believe me, I would have done more had my school not had a credit hours limit for rotations in a particular specialty area) helped open doors for me at schools in regions outside of the NE (and indeed, my top choice is outside of the NE). I would also recommend that you do your best (but don't go overboard) to explain in your personal statement why you are interested in moving to a particular region or state (family ties, etc.). I had several personal statements (ranging from those modified for specific programs to those for programs in a certain area/region). Just remember, it's a game, and you have to know/anticipate it as best you can and play it well to maneuver around the obstacles that programs may have in place (looking regionally, seeking research-experienced applicants, etc.). Remember, play your strengths, be humble, and just be yourself. If you fit, you fit... if you don't, you probably don't want to be there for 5/6 years, anyway (and programs will most likely not want you around for those 5/6 years).