ROL - "Number One"

I am of the opinion that you ignore everything they tell you (or don't tell you), and you rank the programs in the order that you like them. Don?t get overconfident if they promise you the world, and don?t get discouraged if you hear nothing at all.

I also believe that you should only tell one program that they are your No. 1 program, because you can only have one No. 1. This is especially true towards the end, when you have decided which program is your No. 1 program. However, in early December I think all is fair as long as you are not being deliberately deceitful.

I would be curious as to what people do if their No. 1 program changes after they informed their former No. 1 program that they were No. 1. Do you do nothing, knowing it is okay to change your mind? Do you go back and tell the program that they are still at the top of your list, but neglect to mention they are no longer your No. 1? Do you go ahead and tell them that they are no longer your No. 1?

I would think one of the first two options would be best.

neurosurgery is a smaller field filled with more malignant personalities that lends itself to that kind of garbage

right now the match is set-up in our favor--we get to see multiple programs and rank as we see fit, and programs can do the same--resulting in the "best fit"

for the applicants out there getting called my multiple programs looking for committment--remember you are a strong applicant, the large majority of programs will rank you highly regardless if you commit to a "number 1" promise or not--you are probably going to match at whatever program you actually rank 1, so the only danger you have to avoid, is being that applicant who committed to multiple No. 1's and PD's get pissed and remember it down the road

i would advocate being honest--and only telling a program that you are ranking them No. 1 if you actually are--part of why we want to be orthopods are that the people are cool (hardworking, nice, and honest), we should try to keep this going...

I think that most programs are on the up and up when you get the phone call. However, I wouldn't put much into hearing from people saying, "oh we'd love to have you here, or you'd be a great fit here, etc." Those are non-commital statements.

As far as communicating with programs, I think you should only tell a program that they are your No. 1, if they truly are. If I hear from an applicant that my program is their No. 1, and he's ranked high enough to match....and doesn't, then I'm not gonna be happy, and I will remember that guy (although my chairman might not). The way I approached my non-No. 1 programs, was to tell them they were at the top of my list (which could mean top3 or top5), otherwise I just said that I was interested in their program (because I was....if they were on my rank list). That way, there's no lying at all.

Doesn't saying that they are at the top of your list imply No. 1 ranking? I would think that it does. I'm trying to do my best to avoid using any language that is misleading, i.e. will rank you very highly, near the top of my list, or others.

I agree with whoever said this earlier. Maybe I'm naive, and if so that's fine, but I just can't imagine that a program director is going to just flat out lie to you. I know we all have these stories about so-and-so telling someone that they were "ranked to match" and then not matching even though they put them number one. My feeling is that telling programs that I'm very interested should be all they need to hear. If the program is going to get my letter that says "near the top" and then doesn't rank me highly because I didn't say "You're number 1" then they can have their spot and I'll go somewhere else. I think the whole reason for all this calling stuff is to make sure that they get people who really want to be there, whether they are your number 1 or not.

rwbrhp29

This might deviate from the topic a bit, but what about being grilled at an interview about where you'll rank their program, or more specifically if they ask directly if they're you're No. 1 choice. What do you do if they're "at the top" but not your No. 1. How would you handle that during an interview?

powertools

it's illegal for them to ask you where you're going to rank them. obviously, if you get asked this question during the interview, you're not gonna just stop and call them out on it, but i guess you just try and handle it as diplomatically as possible. i think i once heard (maybe on this forum) that if they break the rules first, you should do whatever you want (ie lie straight to their face....because what are they gonna do....say i asked you if we were your No. 1 and you said yes....that would just be admitting that they broke the rules).

Dude, I'm jealous. No one has told me that I am "ranked to match." I didn't realize my application sucked that badly...

The only indication I've received from anyone was the chair at a program where I rotated. I met him when I rotated, had a great time interviewing with him (basically catching up). He asked where I had interviewed/liked, and I openly told him that there was only one other program that I was really interested in (other than his, of course). I was going back for a second look at this other program, and he told me to let him know what my thoughts were afterwards. I didn't feel completeing comfortable with this, not wanting to have another chance to say the wrong thing, but but since he asked (more like his interest was that like my own chairman rather than a interviewing chair), after my second look, I wrote and told him that I considered his program a "best fit" for me. His reply said that - even though they were still at the beginning of their ranking process - he "knew" I would be ranked highly and it would be good to work with me. Both non-committal statements (although it did feel good to hear this).

I think the match works best when there is absolutely no indication about anyone's position on a program's ROL or vice versa. It should be a purely best/great/good/poor fit decision, and I think that any communication regarding ROL can "muddy" the waters, perhaps even leading to disastrous changes in a candidate's/program's ROL (although more likely afftecting the former). I, for one, hope that I don't hear from anyone else. I've already certified my ROL - the the best of my ability looking at a multitude of factors and trying to best determine "fit" - and I plan to not think about/change it in the weeks to come.