The Gateway to Your Orthopaedic Career.
New

unmatched

  Monday, 15 March 2004
  9 Replies
  20 Visits
0
Votes
Undo
Didn't match and now trying to weigh my options -- would appreciate some advice. Research year vs. prelim vs. cat general. I am a little older than your average applicant so I don't want to waist any more time.

Do you apply for a prelim spot at a place where you would love to do ortho and hope that a position opens up (like Monmounth this year) or do you scrap ortho and join the land of the miserable, suck it up and try for a cat general position?

I guess my chilled 12-pack of Bass is going to have to stay in the fridge for a while.
22 years ago
·
#48528
0
Votes
Undo
Spiner,

Sorry to hear about it. My friends and I have been talking a lot about this over the past few weeks and I feel the concensus was to do prelim surgery for 1 reason. A few ortho programs apply for extra resident(s) each year. Some are not only granted new PGY1 spots, but some are even granted PGY2 spots to catch up so to speak, considering that when they applied for the spots was about 1 year prior. The pain of that prelim year would be soon forgotten if you landed one of those spots. The negative is, aside from prelim surgery, you never know how many PGY2 spots there may be and if you have a chance. I can imagine how logistically difficult interviews could be during that year as opposed to how manageable they are during a research year. Either way is a gamble. In my humble opinion....
22 years ago
·
#48529
0
Votes
Undo
my backup plan was to move to the city of my choice, take a year off from the clinical world, and do anything possible to get a job (even volunteer) in the ortho chairman's lab. get to know everybody, then reapply as a pgy-1 with the hopes of wrapping up the spot at that program. whenever i was involved in any conversation about backup plans with pd's or faculty, the issue of sacrifice came up often. so you do a gen surg year, have you really bled to do ortho? or are you just a year older, possibly looking to repeat your internship? i think my strategy would work best if employed in a major city with multiple programs so that the letter from your new boss is relevant in the small circle that you are focusing on.

my only credibilty in this area is the fact that i applied four years in a row to gain admission to med school, and learned quickly that there is another year of hotshots right behind us every step of the way. take the question of commitment out of the equation by making bold decisions.

i'm really sorry that we are even having this discussion. hopefully you can benefit from another perspective. chin up and hang in there.
22 years ago
·
#48530
0
Votes
Undo
Having been there myself a few years ago, my heart goes out to anyone who finds him/herself in this situation. Hopefully, many of you already have a good Plan B. If you don't, it is time to give some serious thought to what your realistic goals, dedication to ortho, and honest expectations are.

The NRMP says that there were 589 pgy1 slots open this year. In the past few years there have been around 1200 applicants (I forget if this includes foreign applicants) each year. A lot of people who apply do not get in. Of these 600 or so people, some apply into multiple specialties and go into a different career path. Others decide from day 1 that they still want to go into ortho. I don't know the real numbers for these 2 groups but realize that there are a lot of people in this unmatched boat who are looking for Plan B. Decide what you want to do quickly but not hazardously, anf get ready to work your ass off regardless to give yourself the best chance the next time around. You have a few different options beyond scrambling for that one open spot:


Different specialty- if you are not committed to ortho or you honestly believe that you will never beef up you resume enough to get in seriously consider another specialty. Read the other multiple posts describing candidates with "poor" numbers who worked hard and got into a residency. If you put in enough hard work, you will be able to substantially improve your future application and will greatly improve your chance of matching. This being the case, be absolutely sure you want to go into another field before you make this decision.

Research- the main positives of this choice are that you remain closely involved with ortho, you may have very good opportunities to network with people in a given program, and you can add very tangible work (papers, book chapters, abstracts, talks, posters) to your resume. The negatives are that (depending on the position description) you may not be able to work with patients, you may not improve your chances with non-academic programs when you next apply, and you will unlikely get the most out of this opportunity if you hate research. I applied for ortho 2 years ago and did not match. I signed up for a 2-year ortho research fellowship, worked my tail off, put out a lot of literature, and networked with a lot of people. When I reapplied, I got 3 times as many interview invites as my first time and matched. Some possible programs that may have established research fellowships are Penn, Dartmouth, Columbia, BU, and Wake Forest (Penn has already filled their position). Call them up and find out if programs do exist. If you are able to get funding yourself, I am sure a far greater number of programs will be happy to accept a funded person into their lab for a year. Talk to the research faculty and lab director at your home program and the research dean at your medical school to get ideas and find out different options.

Prelim year- the positive of this option are that you remain involved in patient care and may be able to apply into a pgy2 position. These positions are few in number each year, however, and are supposedly not much easier to get into than the actual match. Negatives of this option are that you may end up doing an extra intern year, your schedule may make applying/interviewing tricky, and you are not working in a purely ortho environment. If you are certain that you don't want to go to an academic program, this option may be more beneficial to you than doing research. These positions are not hard to locate.

More med school- depending on your school, you may be able to take a 5th year. The positives are that you can do reseach and additional rotations. Your school may or may not charge you an extra year of tuition, and you may or may not be able to take out additional loans to cover your living expenses. This option may be safer than graduating into a prelim year or research fellowship but requires some good planning to make it work.

Regardless of what you do, keep a few things in mind. Whatever you do, perceptions of how hard you work will be a huge influence on their support for you in your next application. Do something you can really see yourself doing because if you don't it will be hard to truly throw yourself into it. Reassess your application plan when you reapply and be ready to apply to a lot of "safer" programs and 70+ programs across the board. Be completely honest with yourself and don't talk yourself into doing something that you really don't want to do. Remember, you were smart enough and worked hard enough to get into med school and make it through the past 4 years. That didn't change overnight, and you are still good enough to go where you want to go.

Best of luck to anyone in this situation. It may seem crappy now, but you will land on your feet, and things will work out.
22 years ago
·
#48531
0
Votes
Undo
thanks, great post. I am currently in that boat, and I haven't heard from that one spot yet....

but I have matched to the bottom of my list, a prelim spot. I guess the work starts all over again.
22 years ago
·
#48532
0
Votes
Undo
I didn't match last year. I picked a prelim year in a desirable location...if I have to do this twice I may as well be in a phat city. I matched this year.

A clinical year gives you the opportunity to prove you can work hard and get along with your colleagues well. You also will ideally get to do some ortho...request this early on stay on the gen surg PD to get your ortho early for letters, etc.

I didn't do research because I don't see how it can strengthen your application outside the lab you work in. Applications are out in September...can you get five publications in JBJS in 2 months? You are the same applicant the second time around with no new experience.

That's my two cents. Good luck to all in this position. It will be a stressful year but it can work out. Stay positive and work hard.
22 years ago
·
#48533
0
Votes
Undo
Yo Spiner-- DO NOT FEAR!!!

I did not match 2 years ago and felt like my world was going to collapse. But the saying goes: "When one door closes, look carefully because another is always opening for you." I know right now you are saying-- take your Confucius sayings and stick it %*@!! but it really is true.

My story: Step 1 232, handful of honors, top 10% of class, some research. 8 interviews, ranked all: No match in '02
I got a research spot at my home program and now have about a dozen abstracts, 4 articles in print, a couple more pending and several more in the hopper. I did not apply last year, but reapplied this year. (I agree with orthotimes that trying to get anything done in research in one year only is unrealistic unless you already have stuff cooking.) 18 interviews and just matched at my top choice. I'm ecstatic!

I think you really have to decide to ortho or not to ortho. It is not the only fulfilling job out there, but if you think so, go for it. I think you need to take a realistic look at any holes in your CV. I had great ward reviews, so I didn't think that my application could be helped by a bunch of rave reviews from gen surg attendings if I did a GS internship. I had as much research as the average Joe Ortho, but I thought I could stand out more if I did a kick ass job in research. And it worked.

I was 27 when I didn't match, so a bit older than the normal medschool tadpole, but not much. You may be a lot older than that and feeling the pressure of having a normal life (like making a decent salary, starting a family, etc..) but if you aren't happy doing anything else, you should just go after it. Hey, people are living longer and longer and having like 4 careers in their lifetime, so where's the fire?

Bottom line: enjoy what you do. There's a way to do whatever you want to do, but it is not worth doing UNLESS YOU ARE HAPPY!!

Go forth and prosper my child!
22 years ago
·
#48534
0
Votes
Undo
bigjvk, what might those "safer" programs be?
22 years ago
·
#48535
0
Votes
Undo
my backup so far if i don't match [and i will be near 30yo if that happens
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
] is to see if i could possibly do another year in med school. this way i could do research, not restricted during interview season, and could still do aways [1-2 months] in other programs. if not that, then possibly do a year of research which i know is not much time. while doing a gen surg year might take a year off of my training, i wonder if this will distract me from my real goal here of getting into ortho.

it depends on what you feel hindered the match. if i had to personally forecast what it would do it to me, i'd say just the fact of being in a rigid medical school program that does not let me do many aways for credit, where the weeks off for interviews is very limited, and where there is little time to think about my application process. - and maybe that my 3rd yr grades are not stellar. so i would fear that a gen surg prelim would put me straight back into that position and i could not be as aggressive in achieving my goal as i'd like.

but if you are competitive already and maybe your lor's aren't very strong, and a you really want a year out of the way, then maybe a gen surg prelim at your desired place would be great, if you can get that prelim. the one thing i'm not sure about gen surg prelims though is that, doesn't that mean you now have to apply to pgy-2 programs
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
aren't there very few of those out there
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
if that's true, then on the bright side is that the residents i've seen that did gen surg before going into a specialty like urology, were damn good surgeons - they have alot more experience.
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.


if ortho is the only field for you, turn this year into one where you can get into a better program than you would have got if you had matched this year.
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
.... good luck
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.
  • Page :
  • 1
There are no replies made for this post yet.

Search your questions

Leaderboard

1
Dora
User's Points: 18
2
Brenda
User's Points: 11
3
Nino
User's Points: 10
4
manhnv102
User's Points: 9
5
venky96188
User's Points: 8

Top Members

butterfingerbbs
2 Posts
83 Replies
6 years ago
bladerunner101
10 Posts
68 Replies
1 year ago
Teggie
6 Posts
59 Replies
6 years ago
blaqmamba
2 Posts
35 Replies
9 years ago
bonetrauma2
1 Posts
34 Replies
7 years ago