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Weight of clerkship grades

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gjm25
  gjm25
  Monday, 02 March 2015
  25 Replies
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Hi all, 3rd year med student here trying to figure out 4th year away rotations. I'm wondering if I should continue to work towards ortho or if it's an uphill battle (more than it is for everyone else).

Step 1 went very well. I go to a good allopathic school in the US (30s/40s for NIH ranking on US news for what it's worth). I should have 2 1st author sports med publications by application season. I'll take step 2 in a few months. My worry is that I earned "Satisfactory" for all preclinicals and so far in clerkships have been subpar. I earned High Pass on in-house ortho electives x2 as well as general surgery. Otherwise clerkship grades have been Satisfactory. I have a non-ortho leadership position leftover from prior interests and am an officer in the military. I don't anticipate AOA or an impressive class rank. Are my clinicals (namely the lack of honors, including ortho/surgery) going to hold me back from matching in ortho?
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Ockham
Ockham
11 years ago
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#58661
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Are you going to match into ortho in the military or in a civilian program?

I have a friend that did the military match and while his grades were similar to yours, he matched just fine. A classmate of his was AOA with a step 1 score 20 points higher than his and did not match. For the military ortho match, it's all about the rotations.
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58662
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What's your school's grading scale?
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gjm25
gjm25
11 years ago
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#58663
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I apply to both military and civilian programs and then the military tells me which they want me to do.

"For the military ortho match, it's all about the rotations." - All about clerkships? All about the military aways?

The top 25% get honors/high pass.

Thanks for your help.
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Ockham
Ockham
11 years ago
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#58664
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All about the away rotations for the military. Apparently, all six program directors get together and discuss which candidates are going where.
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58665
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Is Honors/High Pass one grade? Can you just clarify your full grading scale. How many possible grades are there?
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gjm25
gjm25
11 years ago
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#58666
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The top 10% gets Honors and the next 15% get High Pass. Otherwise there is only satisfactory. I'm not sure what percentile/score would fail, but it's not many of us. I've been pretty middle of the road on most rotations (my guess would be 60th percentile or so), but in the satisfactory range. The Ortho electives, however, are more subjective as there is no NBME shelf exam. I don't believe they stick to any percentiles. I hope this clarifies things; I'm happy to provide more info if needed.
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58667
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Gotchya. I am just a current applicant, so I can't say I know what the committee talks about when they are screening applicants. But it is going to be a tough fight for you to get interviews. It all goes back to the numbers game: most programs get 100 apps/spot and will interview the top 10% of their applicants.

How good was your Step 1 score?

The rest of your app seems good, do you know what the issue is with your clerkship grades? Is it personality conflicts, poor shelfs/practicals, or what?
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58668
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This applies to non-military programs, I don't know anything about the military programs.
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gjm25
gjm25
11 years ago
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#58669
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A tough fight for interviews as in something I can compensate for by applying to 80 programs? Please be as honest as possible (not saying you haven't been) as I don't want to give up on my number 1 choice but also do not want to waste my/others' time and energy chasing a pipe dream. I got a 245 on step 1. My clerkship grades aren't stellar because of my average shelf scores. The only shelf I really beat my classmates on was surgery so far. My class has been well above the national average typically for shelfs, but I'm not sure what the significance of that is. It's not a personality issue though (I hope) - I've gotten along well with all my teams and work hard.
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Ockham
Ockham
11 years ago
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#58670
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Civilian programs will be tough with a 245 and those grades, unless you have outstanding research. I would apply to 100+ programs.

However, don't count yourself out at all. My friend had a lower step 1 score than you with similar grades and matched in the military ortho programs. As I mentioned, those are almost entirely dependent on how well you do at your away rotations. You should rotate at as many as possible and bust your ass because those six programs all talk to each other. What branch of the military are you in? I think the Army has it the easiest. Even for the army though, fewer than 50% got an ortho spot.
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outlier
outlier
11 years ago
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#58671
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I was wondering if it will be a tough fight for me to get interviews as well? I received a 250 on step 1 but have yet to honor a rotation. I have one P(FM 1st rotation) and 4 HP(peds, IM, psych, neuro). H/HP/P scale. 10-20% get honors depending on the rotation. Thanks.
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58672
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It's really hard to give a general recommendation. I would say it would be more helpful if someone with similar scores/grades who applied this year responded with how many applications they submitted and interviews they were offered.

If you're around average board score (245) and don't have many Honors grades I would think you will want to rotate at community and state programs. Don't waste a rotation on a reach program. But that is just a generality, I will defer to anyone who might have gone through the process with those numbers this past year.
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TorryHoltsFinger
TorryHoltsFinger
11 years ago
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#58673
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Would anyone care to throw some advice my way? My step 1 is in low 240s and I got Jr. AOA, but I only got 2 honors (surgery and OB) with 2 high passes and 2 passes. Are the 2 passes and few honors gonna kill me? Does the honors in surgery make up for it? I plan on apply to 100+ programs and just want to match somewhere. Thanks for any input
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Bluecollarbulldawg
Bluecollarbulldawg
11 years ago
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#58674
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I'm also curious to hear the opinion of those who recently matched and current residents on this topic. A lot of schools, mine included, don't even do H/HP/P. For those that don't mind sharing, would love to hear some clerkship/shelf scores and if this was ever brought up on the interview trail.
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58675
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It won't be brought up in your interview, but it is what gets you your interview invites
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ACDF
ACDF
11 years ago
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#58676
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Grades are brought up sometimes.

At brown for example, the chair goes over your transcript in front of you and assigns "points" to you depending on which courses you received honors, your step scores, AOA, whether you were a college athlete, etc...
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Teggie
Teggie
11 years ago
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#58677
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Getting all honors shows the committee that you work hard and people like you. I have heard this is very helpful for getting interviews.
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blaqmamba
blaqmamba
11 years ago
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#58678
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Lol that is absolutely absurd
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ACDF
ACDF
11 years ago
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#58679
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Haha isn't it? That type of pettiness is prob the most efficient way to get your program ranked low on my list. (Not that I'm butthurt, my app fared well in this stupid exercise B) .)
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blaqmamba
blaqmamba
11 years ago
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#58680
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Makes for a useless interview. I would hope they would save applicants the time and money!
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