Step 1 Cut off - Need your info

What were some people's view of some schools cuttoffs. I know I know please dont drop me the link to Charting Outcomes unless its the new Data from NRMP. Congrads to all those who Matched!!!! Godspeed and Good luck for who will match on the second try. Finally be blessed for us 3rd years Im so excited.

So here are some more... of note, I had a strong step 2, which was available after I had received about 1/3 of the listed interviews. Point being, a strict 230 cutoff is amyth in my opinion.

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
UConn- 222
GWU - 222 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
Medical College of Georgia - 205
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
University of Kansas - 228
U Kentucky - 205
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
Union- 222
UMass - 222
Tufts- 222
U of Michigan - 205
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
SUNY Upstate - 204
HSS - 215, 222 (from the PD)
Columbia - 222 (No thx with 243)
HJD - 222 (No thx with 243)
Mt Sinai- 222
St Lukes- 222
LIJ- 222
Downstate- 222
Einstein- Montefiore- 222
Stony Brook- 222
Albany- 222
Syracuse- 222
Buffalo- 222
Rochester- 222
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
Wake - 205
UMDNJ (both)- 222
Monmouth- 222
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Drexel - 222 (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - 222 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 222, 228 (No thx with 243)
MUSC - 205
Greenville - 205
Einstein- Phile 222
Drexel- 222
Temple- 222
University of Virginia - 204
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205

Hey ... just browsing today; here are a few more additions from last year's applicants & I put them back into alphabetical order by state

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
Medical College of Georgia - 205
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
University of Kansas - 228
U Kentucky - 205
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
SUNY Upstate - 204
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
Wake - 205
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
MUSC - 205
Greenville - 205
University of Virginia - 204
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205

That is kinda the point of the list (to let people know what schools might give you a chance with a lower score, so they can focus on places they have a chance). Care to post your score for those interviews?

Take all these posted scores with a grain of salt...I interviewed at St. Marys and at UCLA with a score lower than those posted.

dr2,

Just curious but even though you weren't able to pull down interviews at some good programs where did you end up matching with such a great step 1? I only ask b/c i have a similar board score and am probably in the middle of my class also. just curious....

It looks like a guy with 205 got interviews at some awfully good programs. I assume there must be something else in his application that made him attractive. I state this because I had a similar Step 1 score and also had something very distinctive on my resume'. That should be noted in anybodies interpretation of board scores.

Besides, I think this whole concept of using board scores is bull ****. It basically allows the programs to not have to think and use an exam that was never intended to gauge the caliber of student, and an exam which 90% of the material doesn't apply to Ortho, decide who they interview and how they rank them. I know it is only a piece of the puzzle, but its the piece that opens the door, so maybe in the overall ranking it is not very important, but if anything it limits interviews.

Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
MUSC - 205
Wake - 205
UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of Virginia - 204
SUNY Upstate - 204
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)

Of course it has little meaning, but there is a lot of talk out there about minimum scores for your application to be reviewed (as in you could be AOA, a professional athlete, have 20 publications and a couple of books in ortho, but at certain schools your app gets the circular file based on step 1 of 219 if 220 is the cutoff). This thread was started with the hope of showing that the idea of a strict cutoff is a load of crap at many programs. Yes there is more to the app than scores. There are plenty of people who got surprising interviews and rejections. This thread is basically to debunk the myth that if you have a lower score you shouldn't apply to certain schools (although even more helpful would be to know which schools do automatically toss apps with scores below a certain level without even looking at the rest of the application, should any of those actually exist).

How about posting the opposite side?
I have 243 in my step I, middle of class in top 10 med school and didn't get interviews at many places.

Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
MUSC - 205
Wake - 205
UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)

Feel free to think whatever about the rest of my application, but my point is that step I by itself has little meaning.

I agree that this has been true in the past but I think things are beginning to change. I think the upper bar has been raised by women this past yr and the bottom will soon have to follow.

My stats make me a very 'average' applicant if you remove the fact that I am a female. I have a 229 which does not make me inferior, but leaves me far from superior. I have a strong engineering background, division 1 athlete, good research expereince, nonAOA, blah, blah, blah. I have always been considering some kind of surgery, but did not decide definitively on ortho till mid MS3.

The point is, I was told by my chairman who is female friendly that I would absolutely match and to apply to top programs because I could end up there if I wanted. This would ring true with the fact that it is easier to get in as a woman.

However, I have had a rough time getting interviews despite having applied to a wide range and number of programs. I think someone with my stats is no longer competitive enough to get an interview at a top program, I also think there are more woman than usual applying this year. I don't think there is something weird in my application I don't know about, I've been told by multiple people it is very solid and I have great letters.

I have watched as some of my male classmates got interviews at programs I did not with 'lower' stats. I'm really excited for them, but I'm also frustrated too. So am I caught in the middle? Who knows? Maybe I just applied to programs who already feel they have enough women right now, maybe they have a strong applicant from their home programs, etc, etc. All I can do is keep trying and come up with a back-up plan.

I guess my point is, we never really know why we don't get the interviews we want, but try not to resent the people who do, its just wasted energy and makes you more miserable/bitter. There are male and female applicants who may get an interview we feel we deserved because they decided at the last second to do ortho, or don't really want it, or whatever reason fires you up. Just keep focusing on yourself and trying to figure out how to make yourself look better.

I think things are begining to even out for males and females as the years pass.

Yeah - Like the guy who has wanted to become a bone doctor since he broke his arm when he 7 years old.

Dude - you're letting a 7 year old make your career decision for you. Enough said.

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Well, I made this same switch at the end of my 3rd year/beginning of 4th year. It made perfect sense to me, to the programs who interviewed me, and most importantly to the program I matched at.

What one in similar circumstances needs to do is to apply to programs not run by the likes of VTMetc.

I had a fair amount of medical experience/exposure before med school that did not include ortho. It wasn't until relatively late in the game that I found the field that most suited my interests (diverse patient population, actually helping people, cool collegues, etc). It wasn't until late in the game that I realized that I wouldn't make a good family doc...

On the other end of the spectrum, I am suspect of individuals who know from "before med school" that all they want to be is an orthopod. How did you know that your interests/talents/etc might not have been better suited for a different specialty? What did you do to make sure this was not the case? Again, I would be more suspect of the applicant who went through school with blinders on than an applicant who took a considered approach in matching the entirety of their interests to their chosen fields.

Hopefully this thread will go back to providing useful information. I posted here originally to possibly get some info and maybe encouragement. I was expecting something more like "yeah, ortho's great, you should definitely explore it more cuz i think you should have a shot." Instead I get flamed for not being dedicated to ortho. I can just image VTMD07 growing up and being the asshole attending that thinks that nobody is dedicated enough to operate with him without being yelled at. He'll be that one guy that med students hate. I find it ironic that he tells another poster to have thicker skin when he's the one taking offense to my original post. Anyhow, I'll just continue to figure out what specialty I want to dedicate my career to, and let those flamers words motivate me to make sure I make the right decision.

My poor thread...

BigBear - In my opinion, for many of us going into ortho, it is exactly like being you in this thread. Many of us must face attitude and adversity, but calmly let it destroy itself. The turtle also wins the race to happiness in orthopedics.

Man this weed is good...

ok...time to chime in.....

1) it IS easier to get into ortho as a woman....there are just less women who apply, but those who do are getting tons of interviews with inferior stats.

2) as far as what VTMD07 said: Yes he may seem like a know it all, but he is smart enough to have picked up on the fact that the powers that be are looking for any reason to bump you down their rank list...that is why the residents will watch you and analyze you all day long

VTMD07....

some valid points, but PLEASE...if you're going to start flaming someone posing as if they're somehow less worthy of going into ortho because their stuff isn't as in order as YOU THINK yours is, at least make sure your spelling is right.

Or just find a less judgmental/condescending way to give advice to someone who in the end is probably not a whole lot different than you.

Once again if your seriously interested in ortho, why wait til 4th year to be involved in it? And if you think I'm just asking this question to be a jerk, what do you think they will say to you on the interview? And do you think that saying well spending my free time in ortho grand rounds/clinic/research/OR wouldn't really show me anything about the field, so I was just waiting til I could do a rotation. I really doubt that will fly. Medical school is not oriented to producing orthopods, ortho is a small small fraction of what you learn, and you MAY have to go above and beyond to find out if thats what your interested in(which anything I would commit 5 years of my life to I most obviously would). I'm sorry if taking some of your free time to go spend in ortho isn't what you feel you should do, and you feel that all you need to learn about ortho can be found in a 1 month rotation, b/c your chances with matching with that attitude with your stats are slim to none. And fine, call BS on that stuff, but I didn't know for sure I wanted to do ortho til 3rd year, I had a feeling but I kept myself open. And i spent an extra week over xmas break working in the ortho clinic and OR at my home program to get a better look for me. I too was tired of busting my butt in 3rd year, but I am not going to half arse choose a profession just because I'm too lazy to go that extra lil bit to see if its right for me.

Your original post was so inflammatory, and if you are ignorant to that lord help you. Don't come on a message board for any competitive specialty, say those things, and not expect to get flamed....

LMAO..if you think those are rude and condescending, oh boy. Sorry that I don't want to blow smoke up everyone's arse, and tell it how I see it. Once again, I told you a conversation verbatum that a resident told a student, and those are the opinions that matter. If you think any type of surgery is some lovey dovey type field, your in for a rude awakening...

Wow, you guys really need to chill. First, I was being sarcastic about the cheerleading part; you know, kinda playing into the stereotype that orthodocs like athletic people. Second, I'm just a third year student who hasn't even had surgery. Just because I have zero surgery/ortho experience right now (which is probably half of all third years at this point of the year) doesn't mean I can't explore ortho as an option. Third, there are some med schools that don't even have the option of doing ortho before 4th year. So you say go to grand rounds/clinic/research/OR. I call BS on that one. How many students fall inlove with clinical ortho based on grand rounds/clinic/research? I can understand wanting to do ortho based on shadowing in the OR, but I think a better way to make sure is to do an actual rotation. Overall, just becuase you somehow "knew" you wanted to do ortho before doing an actual ortho rotation doesn't give you the right to chastise someone for starting to explore the field by asking questions. Get over yourselves.

I personally think the above comments made by VTMD07 are rude and condescending. I thought this forum was for encouraging one another and helping people along in this process. The above posts are what makes me not want to visit this forum very often.