females in ortho

I believe I am the actually first female to reply to this...

I'm a few months away from beginning residency, and just have a few items to respond to.

I agree that men and women are not yet on equal ground regarding application to residency programs. However, I think that the inequalities are often misinterpreted. There is not an extensive history of women going into orthopaedics. The number is certainly on the rise, but it is a gradual incline. There is a wide range of responses to the increase in women in orthopaedics.

A few programs are slightly terrified at how having women in their program would affect the way their program operates--these are programs to avoid when applying. Residency is busy and stressful enough, the last thing you need is the additional concern that your gender is looked upon unfavorably by your fellow residents and your attendings.

There are other programs that are trying to actively recruit women. Your own instinct will have to be your guide to deciding whether these programs are trying to meet some sort of quota or whether they are just trying to be sincere that they value female orthopaedic residents. Its usually a pretty easy call. Some female applicants are happy to hear that they are being recruited because of their gender, because in many ways, it gives them an edge over other applicants. However, be cautious of these programs, because many of them may turn out to be the programs that have been referenced in the previous posts as having quotas for the number of women they want in their program.

Finally, there are programs, and plenty of them, that choose their residents based on their qualifications and personal characteristics, irregardless of gender. In interviewing this past winter, I valued the interviews where the fact that I am female never came up with the staff or with the residents. These were the programs that landed at the top of my list, and fortunately, I have matched at one of them.

As far as the other concerns mentioned, I cannot see that you have many limitations in pursuing orthopaedics. Your board scores and grades may keep you from getting some interviews, but if you apply wisely, work hard on your electives next year, and get excellent letters I think you will be all right. Your gender and your size should be of very little concern, not only in regard to applying for residency but also in regard to being an orthopaedic surgeon. I wish you the best of luck. If you have any other questions, I would be happy to reply, however, this is the first time I have posted on this site, and I still don't understand what a PM is.

I know of a few programs that were enthusiastic about matching female residents. The biggest complaint later on was that the residents took a lot of time off to have kids or for other issues, complained a lot about the residency, or overall were not happy.
The rest of the residents were not happy about covering for the missing residents or didn't get along with the female residents.
Needless to say, these programs are not intent on matching female residents any time soon.
I'm sure there are also male ortho residents that complain a lot about trivial things but for some reason it carries a different connotation when a woman does it, and people tend to remember it more.
This applies to almost all surgical specialties.
I'm setting myself up for a knock-down, but I would not be happy to be in a small ortho class that had a lot of women b/c there is the chance that I would have to cover if one or more of them took time off for whatever reason!

I have heard similar comments from multiple programs, and hinted by even more. That is not uncommon in Orthopaedics nowdays.

Each program varies in their opinion about taking women depending on the number of women they have, and that is the problem.
The number of women in each program should not matter and the match should be fair game to all.

I think there is some truth to what Joepub said in his post. In my program, we now have 3 females after this most recent match. I bet my bile duct that we won't take any females in the next 2-3 years. This has been "hinted at" by one faculty and a few residents. We'll see.

The previous post has to be one of the most ridiculous things I have read on this website. I hope people don't take joepub's opinion as being representative of most users of this forum.

I do NOT want to discourage the women out there,

HOWEVER,

There was a time when many programs (esp more respected programs) were active about having women in their program.

That was a couple years ago. Now guess what? they have "just the right # of females" in their program and don't want to surpass their "quota". They specifically design the rank list so that an excess number of females do not make entry into the program.

Urology is going to go through the same thing- excellent programs are taking women right now because they need them, but at some point they'll "reach their quota" and won't want anymore (or be excessively selective about it). It would be "embarassing" to their program if 50% were female. This is happening to Ortho.

Now that Ortho programs have taken a certain % of females, the discrimination continues.
3 schools in 2005:
Very high tier- 1 female matched, less desirable place for her qualifs.
High tier- Zero females matched, all males matched
Mid Tier- Zero females matched

MANY ORTHO PROGRAMS HAVE "REACHED THEIR QUOTA" ON THE # OF WOMEN IN THEIR PROGRAMS AND HAVE BECOME ULTRA-SELECTIVE ABOUT TAKING MORE WOMAN INTO THEIR PROGRAM. MORE WOMEN ARE APPLYING, LESS ARE STARTING TO GET IN.

Here is the comment from one Program:

"we're not taking any women this year because we already have 2 women in our program" We will wait about 2 years when a female graduates, then we will likely be looking for a woman at that time..."

So for the women out there- this is discrimination for you, sorry to say. And I understand how ridiculous it is. There was this idea that "women had it easy" to get in before, now that programs have their women, they don't want anymore.

Men and Women are not on equal grounds in Ortho, period! It varies from year to year in each program depending on how many they have.

That does not constitute equality, and you should be prepared for that. (and Programs should get a grip with modern medicine- there were some 55-65% women in my med school class- expect more women to come into Ortho or continue with the necrotic old-school mentality)

Hey ortho5,
I agree with xiphoid...don't let others make your decision for you. Go for it if ortho is what you love. We had 2 women my class match ortho this year too. Check your PM.

So, I'm not a woman, but you should never let what other people say affect your decisions. To be honest, no matter how good your numbers are, you never know if you'll match until match day. I had a spectacular candidate not match in ortho in my class, and I've seen people that I was very concerned would never match match in top places. It's all how you attack it. Numbers and paper will get you interviews, but your personality, enthusiasm, zest for learning, and love of ortho will get you a spot. I had 3 women in my class match in ortho and all of them had that in common. My best advice as far as scheduling is do away rotations at places you might want to go and be an absolute star. Be interested, prepared, and inquisitive, but don't suck up. A program will always choose someone they know will work well over a stud or studette on paper who may do well. Also, there is know better way to get to know the nuts and bolts of a program. Nothing would be worse than loving a place on interview day, matching there, and then being slapped in the face with the reality that you hate your life there. It sounds harsh, but I've seen it happen to people.

Also, don't get discouraged by the jerks you may run into on the interview trail. Expect to run into bigots. But keep in mind that there are many programs that really don't care about gender, they simple want top candidates that they can work with. Good luck!