beaumont vs harvard

There are so many inconsistencies that have been floating around on the different programs. Harvard for xample. Some people say the residents do a lot and fellows dont get in the way cause the program is big. others say resident's do only floor and ER work even as PGY-5 while the fellows do all the cases. I gues we will never know who to believe....

If anyone has SOLID knowledge, not rumors or second and third hand, please be kind enough to share it. thanks

Hi...I'm one of the residents in the Harvard program.

While fellows are an inevitable part of the Harvard program, the program is so large (and # of attendings constantly expanding across four major hospitals), that at worst you're alternating cases with them and, more frequently, you're in a different room or they're providing invaluable, down to earth teaching. The latter (their contribution to teaching) is especially true.

It is also true that you have a significant amount of ER time (the residents cover a lot Level 1 trauma centers between MGH, Brigham and Women's, Children's, and Beth Israel), but most of the residents admit that it's a "good for you" experience (though we obviously enjoy the OR). Most job opportunities out there will have some degree of ER coverage, and you come out very equipped to deal with almost anything acutely. The older surgeons will also emphasize the important aspect of developing judgement as you go through residency, and our program definitely fosters this development between our ER and clinic time.

On the other hand, the program is somewhat top heavy in the sense that more of the operative exerience is during the 3rd through 5th years. And while many Harvard graduates feel that they should do a fellowship accordingly, I think that most ortho program graduates end up doing fellowship these days, and the faculty at Harvard work hard to facilitate getting residents the fellowships that they want.

In summary, it's a large program with a significant amount of ER time, but the senior residents all seem adept, knowledgable, and are quite happy with their fellowship match.

If there are any other specific questions please feel free to ask...I'd be glad to answer them (and honestly).

Good luck w/ the match!

thanks for the reply. i know a lot of applicants have been asking about early operative experience. while i think this is important, i think it is more important to ask about operative experience by the time you graduate. So even if the program gets you more into the OR later in your training, does it get you in enough? Do you feel comfortable with your operative skills when you graduate. Have you operated adequately on all the subspecialties? I know everyone does a fellowship these days, but do you still feel comfortable doing general orthopadic procedures?
Other things:
1) How strong do you feel the didactics are and do they prepare they preapre you well for OITE and later for the boards?
2) In the OR, do you get a decent number of cases as primary surgeon or first assist. Any rough statistics? Is there a lot of one on one mentorship, be it with the fellow or attending?
3) The fact that the program is quite big, do you feel people get drastically different experiences (and therefore training)?
4)If you go back, would you choose your program again?
5) Any major things that you would like to be different in the program?

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The strongest aspect that makes it stand out?

I think these are pretty fair questions to ask about any residency. I appreciate your responses.

HCORP -

Thanks for the info. A couple more questions about Harvard. I know you guys have some short rotations (1 month). It's gotta be hard to build up any kind of rapport with an attending in that time such that he would trust you to do his case. Do you find that to be the case?

Also, where do residents mostly live in Boston, and what are common rents to expect to pay? What are the "trendy" areas of Boston, and are they close to any of the hospitals?

Finally, do you know if Harvard ever helps residents' wives get jobs in Boston? Have you ever heard of this happening? Thanks man.

I know nothing about the Harvard program, but would like to dispell the myth that everyone does a fellowship. Without triggering a debate about whether to or not to do a fellowship, the last data I read showed roughly 60-65% of graduates pursue a fellowship, with about 30% of those fellowships being sports medicine. Certainly more graduates than not do pursue a fellowship, but at least 30-40% do not. It is important to find a program that will let you operate enough to be comfortable with general orthopedic procedures unless you know from the start you want a highly subspecialized practice. Goals and life situations change during the course of residency and you may at least want the option to start practice immediately after residency if you find it necessary.

Hey everyone...I'll try to answer as many of the questions as I can, but please let me know if I missed anything.

Tornmeniscus:
1) As far as didactics, we have a half day every week of protected time (Wed mornings) set aside for our core curriculum, which is a two year rotating schedule of lectures covering major orthopedic topics; it also includes a cadaver lab every summer for anatomy. It's also a chance to build cohesiveness among a large program (it's always nice to see your friends who may be rotating at another hospital). While it's not necessarily tailored directly towards OITE, we tend to perform above average, though we can't boast having everyone in the 90s like some programs may. I'm not sure what role these scores ultimately play in helping out w/ fellowships, but we match relatively well.

2) The way our rotations are set up is that you're matched with an attending during each rotation so, for example, a given joints attending will always have a single 2nd year resident working w/ him/her, etc. That translates into always being one on one in the OR, and it's modeled after an apprenticeship approach to education. The downside is that even as a more senior resident you may be doing discharge summaries, entering orders, etc; but it does guarantee a one on one experience and a breadth of experience among our large number of attendings. Ultimately (I asked a senior resident) we perform approx 2500-3000 cases as first assist/primary.

3) The program is large, but we all sequentially rotate through the same attendings/group of attendings, so the experience tends to be surprisingly uniform. Obviously, there's some intrinsic variation, but we all tend to be pretty happy w/ our experience. I've never heard other residents complain.

4) I would definitely choose this program again, though I still have a few years left. Speaking w/ more senior residents, most agree that they undervalued the "judgement" skills that they developed through a lot of clinic and OR time, esp at the junior level (for example, you'll cover the entire daytime ER during your trauma time for a two months as a 2nd year). That being said (and as was subsequently pointed out), this top-heavy operative experience means that while we feel comfortable doing bread and butter ortho upon graduating, most of us do fellowships; perhaps other programs better equip you to not have to do any fellowship. My personal view is that I'm thankful for the fellowship opportunities we have after graduating this program, and I don't tend to mind the idea of spending an extra year - this decision, of course, is very personal.

5) Things I would prefer to be different; it's never an easy question, b/c the grass is always greener on the other side. It's a large program with a lot of Level 1 trauma centers to cover and sometimes we feel (despite our large class size) that we're still pretty spread out it terms of covering ED's and the sheer # of attendings.


Ortho2012:
On most rotations we do rotate for only a month w/ attendings (there are many exceptions, however, on Trauma, Joints, Hand). There has been the argument that it's harder to develop rapport, esp if you take a week vacation during a 4 wk rotation. We're fortunate that Dr. Herndon, our program director, is extremely devoted to the residents and has listened to these concerns, so a committee is working to set up a schedule whereby our rotations are increased to approx two months; this is still in the works, but there has been a strong push.

Boston isn't cheap, but there are many places to live; b/c of our multiple hospitals, some live near MGH, others near the Brigham, Children's, and Beth Israel (which are grouped together in the Longwood area). My own rent is approx 1500 for a one bedroom, but it varies by location; it's also much cheaper w/ roommates (I live w/ my fiance).


Sorry, have to run (I'm at the hosp), but I'll write more later; again, I'm happy to answer any questions as truthfully as I can.