How many interviews did you go on in 2005-06?

I think it is important for the younger med students to realize that this forum has a selection bias. It is my opinion that the people who post regularly on here have their $hit together and tend to be the people who are getting interviews. I think the people who are not in such a great position tend not to be active on this board.

so keep this in mind when you look at these posts. Most people applying to ortho are not going on 10-20 inteviews....only the better applicants that are likely to match have the opportunity to go on so many interviews...

bump

I went on a total of 7 interviews. I had 10 offers but three conflicted with other interviews and did not have any alternative dates. Overall, I applied to 32 programs with 10 offers, 1 waitlist, about 15 rejections and did not hear anything from the rest. I had a step I of 249, step II of 255, AOA, good LORs (as far as I know!), mix of honors/A's, and research experience in both ortho and plastics. The interviews I had were from very solid programs, but I learned in this process that nothing is exactly predictable. I was rejected from smaller programs that I was hoping to interview at and offered interviews at some of my "reach" programs. In the end, I realize that in many ways, the interview offers are quite random. Therefore, you must apply to many programs and just hope to match somewhere
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... preferably someplace that is a good fit for you as well!! Good luck. Only 5 weeks.

The randomness to it all is 100% correct, I had 248 Step 1, 259 Step 2, AOA, great letters (able to read them at certain interiews) and Ortho research with pub in minor journal. Applied to 56 programs, offered 14, went on 11 due to conflicts, wait listed at 3 and rejeced from 29, never heard from the rest. Invites were to some places with big names and other lesser known joints said not in this lifetime and vis versa. My recommendation ...... don't fail the CS, f%^&*^% bast$#@!s at the NBME. I think that where you go to school matters a significant amount because I know guys with lesser numbers who got more interviews while appling to less but are from well known schools. And forget Chicago they are so busy bickering between themselves that you are lucky to get one from the 5 of them.
My own personal take on this process is that if you have apporox 400 applicatons no one is gona sit and go through all those. So what do you do? You take only those with >230 Step 1. Then you are left with say 150-200. Still I doubt anyone is gona go through that many aps. So you give 40 to attending x, 40 to attending y and 40 at attending z, and so on and tell everyone to pick 10 or whatever and give all rotators a shot. The process boils down to your letters (remember everyone is the greatest and everyone walks on water)and who wrote them. If the guy whose pile you ended up in knows the guy that wrote yours, you're in, if not tough luck, see ya at the Grammys. Apply to 60+ programs even if you are the best applicant then decide where to vist. Cold process but the people you meet at these places are some of the nicest and coolest peole I've met.
The glass is either half empty or broken to me. Why would anyone leave a half- full glass just sitting there.

The last several posts are dead on...and the younger guys need to heed these with respect. This process is so random, so you increase your chances by applying to a lot of programs. You will find a SIGNIFICANT geographic bias in interviewie selection. So if you are from a certain area and want to go to another area, YOU NEED TO ROTATE THERE. The chicago story is true...if your not from a med school in chicago or you rotate there your odds are very slim of getting an interview there. And even so, if you want to actually operate only a couple of the 5 will fit your bill anyway.
The last guys post is a sentiment to the reality of the situation.....guys who have those numbers would expect to get almost every interview they apply to....you can try to guess the algorythm...but my best estimate is that the residency coordinator screens most of the applications and you could have a letter from "letournel" and "rockwood" that says you are the second coming and it wont matter until you get into the interview.
If you figure most places interview 40-60 people and they also interview all rotators and home med students, then that leaves about 25-30 spots open to the "general public".

I whole heartedly agree with what has been said. I applied to 52 programs....I did not apply to a lot of the smaller places where I may have picked up a few more interviews. My target region was the Midwest. Wayne State shut down===imagine if you had done a rotation and the program closes. I had a 241 on I, and 243 and duece, passes CS... Mostly H and NH on my clinicals (missed AOA by a bit and cannot emphasize how much I think that hurt me)...one nice little reseach project..good letters..from a decent med school....and I got 13/52 invites....I made 11 interviews...

Can I complain???...NO.....I was content...but honestly I had no idea what a blood bath this would become....

wanted to clarify something to rising applicants with reference to geographic bias-- if you want to break into a region, you should definitely rotate, but do not assume because you rotated the other programs will give you a shot. regardless of geographic distinction, you should rotate at _the_ program you want to go to. BU doesn't care if you rotated at MGH, and UIC could care less if you were a star at Rush. to reiterate the randomness of interviewing 10 per spot, you want them to know you. if you don't stand out, that's just it... you won't stand out.

and for those of you with crappy step 1's-- it can be done.

cheers.
firegirl

i actually completely disagree with some of the previous posts-- i think the shotgun approach to applying and interviewing is a terrible way to go and ultimately is what is making this process such a "crap-shoot"

i go to a top-ten med school with some big names in ortho--whom i got letters from, i had a 240 on step 1, mostly high passes, one honors third year--i consider myself a middle of the road candidate

i spent some time researching programs on orthogate, and finding out where kids from my med school (with letters from the same attendings) applied, got interviews and matched--after doing this there were twenty programs i was really interested in (because of what i read, and from talking to people) and i thought i had a shot interviewing at based off of kids at my school with similar stats and letters-- keep in mind these are not all the most competitive places in the country, there is a good mix of competitive and lesser known places-- wisconsin, u of c, loyola, michigan, allegheny, grand rapids, emory, UW, summa, akron, cinicinatti, beaumont, MCO, ohio state, henry ford, iowa, case western, uic

because of advice i had recieved: "the process is such a crapshoot, you have to apply to at least sixty programs"--i ended up applying to thirty more--programs all over the country--big waste of money!

out of my first group i recieved 14 interview offers, out of my second shot-gun group I got 1!

note: i did not apply to harvard, hss, ucsf, rush, penn, and other places on this level...because either i wasnt that interested and/or i knew that i really didnt have a shot of matching at these places

what makes this process such a "crap-shoot" is that people with solid-great stats (240's high passes and honors, or 250's, mostly honors or, 250+ and AOA) apply 60+ programs--programs become inundated by applications and have no choice but to give out interviews based on name recognition because they dont have time to read through everybody's crap, if all of us did some research applied to a reasonable number of programs (30-40) then we would all be more likely to interview at the programs we are really interested in, and we would save a bunch of money

caveats to this--if you have a lower step 1 or lots of passes third year (putting you in the bottom half of your medical school class), you may need to apply to more places, but do not waste your money applying to competitive places if you have not rotated there--harvard, hss, pitt, mayo, case western, rush, penn, ucsf, emory, utah, university of colorodo, san francisco orthopaedic program, miami, etc. Instead apply and rotate at places who are more interested in hard working people than big-time stats(usc, king-drew, geisinger, henry ford, etc.)

also if there are a bunch of kids in your class applying for ortho (10 or more) then get together and dont all apply to the same places! regardless of how great of an applicant you are, most places do not want interview more than 5 candidates from the same school!-- in fact this number seemed more like 2-3.

if you dont got to a school with a home ortho program, or dont go to a place with big names, then rotate at rush, or harvard, or mayo, or hss, or ucsf, and get letters from big name people! use their letters to get your foot in the door at other places, but do not expect to match or even interview because each of these places gets a lot of rotators--

my point is-- i think if you do a little research(read about programs on this website, talk to residents at your home program, talk to the fourth year students who just finished applying) and are realistic it is not nescessary to apply to 60 plus programs--30-40 is very reasonable for solid applicants

i know this post is controversial--so I am looking forward to hearing responses...

I appreciate Noonan's response and thoughts.... but, still disagree. The process does have a lot of randomnesss that is out of your control (many of the points listed above). The main things you have control over in this process are where you apply and where you choose to interview. Cost aside (that being a big aside) I think you should apply to as many places as you would consider going. I don't think the 40-60 range is at all unreasonable. Once you find out who is interested in YOU, then you can selectively choose where to interview. The other point is this, the interview is a valuable process for the applicant. With every interview you learn a little bit more about your likes and dislikes when it comes to a program. This then helps you form the basis for how you will rank programs on your ROL. I went on 17 interviews and gained a lot from each one... sometimes I learned more about where I would be most happy by having the thought "I definitely don't want to come here" after an interview. One program in particular I thought I would rank very highly preinterview, due to location and the fact that several previous medstudents from my school matched there, ended up near the bottom of my list after that interview.

As far as Noonan's comment that more target applications willl help out fellow applicants... I don't believe that to be true. Furthermore, I feel every applicant that receives an interview and intends in good faith to go on that interview is entitled to it... even if there are other people excluded from that interview who may desire that program more. Now, that doesn't mean that it's OK to hoard interviews, schedule multiple on one day only to cancel at the last minute... blah blah. But, you are ENTITLED to the interviews you receive. After all, the way the system is set up it is almost impossible to go on more that 20 interviews. If you have the funds, the ability and the stamina to do this many interviews, go for it. You will have learned many valuable things that will make you a better, happier resident in the end.

i go to a top-ten med school with some big names in ortho--whom i got letters from, i had a 240 on step 1, mostly high passes, one honors third year--i consider myself a middle of the road candidate

I think Noonan is not fully recognizing the value of a TOP 10 MED SCHOOL....I promise you future 4th year med students this will get you interviews. you cannot underestimate that big name med schools get you the benefit of the doubt on interview selection. The same can be said for being female....not that this gets you interviews by itself....but if you are tied with several other applicants this will give you the edge....

I know I will get a rash of crap for saying this but I think everyone knows its true.

i definitely appreciate the posts made by pertualpriaprism and trigen, definitely some variability in the application process as they both argue--its good to have different perspectives.

i guess i disagree with calling the application process a "crapshoot" implying that is all up to chance, this would be true if pd's took all the applicants names, mixed them up in a hat, and then pulled out interviewees randomly one by one, which definitely doesnt happen

a guy from my school who matched last year with very similar stats (board score, grades, letters from the same people) was offered 15 interviews, I was offered 14-- out of these we had 9 interview offers in common (same places)! Not a crapshoot...

rank of medschool not as important as who writes your letters--one example is Rush (not a top-10 med school per se) but Orthopaedic department is extremely well-known, with lots of big-name Ortho attendings--to my knowledge applicants from Rush with similar stats as mine did better in terms of total number of interview offers and caliber places interviewed at-- Also, at many of my interviews some one said, "Oh i see Dr. X wrote one of your letters, I completed residency with him...or Dr. X wrote you a nice letter I see him at AAOS every year"

rank of medschool not as important as connections--Went to one interview at "top-5 ortho program"--there were two guys from loyola in chicago at the interview (not nescessarily the most well known medical school)--however chair at Loyola is extremely well-known Hand Guy (former President of Hand Society), also I interviewed with two junior attendings at the program who had gone to that program for residency after attending Loyola for medical school--if you have two residents from a particular medical school who were so awesome you asked them to come back and be faculty, you would absolutely want to interview more applicants from that medical school (regardless of med school ranking)

my medschool definitely helped me to interview at places that had matched people from my school in the last five years (6/15 places I was offered interviews, this was true)--this makes absolute sense, if they have three residents from your school who have done a great job, then why not try to get more

being a female applicant can hurt you or help you depending on the program

my advice to future applicants--find out where your school has matched applicants in the last five years, find out where the class above you interviewed at--especially if there was someone at your school with similar stats, figure out where the attendings who wrote your letters have connections, apply to these places--apply and interview broadly (well-known and lesser known programs) within your region as a baseline, add programs you are interested in as you see fit, if you want to apply to 80 programs and interview at 20--Trigen is absolutely correct, its well within your right to do so, but dont feel that you have to do it. Good Luck.

I now see what Noonan is saying and I agree with his general arguement. I have talked to program directors who have told me they perfer med students from schools X,Y,Z and do not interview students from schools S, M. I also agree that attendings have connections and there are "tracts" from one med school to a particular residency program....

So more appropriately stated....I think you could look at your list of applictions and predict with (50% success) where you will and wont get interviews based on these factors.....however this dosent really change anything....

FMG Stats (Ross) from the states
Applied to 63 programs
Received a total of 12 interviews (was hoping on 13 but a program I rotated at closed..what are the odds)
Went on only 8 due to conflicts
I received 4 from calling, but only went on two of them due to conflict.
(funny thing is the ones I got from calling, they always asked why I wanted to be there since my address was from California. And a good reason I guess (like the program, area...) can help with that. They said they have this pile of good applicants but cannot make way on them, so a call and a push seems to help). Overall, I only called about 8 programs (and got 4).

Overall, Step 1: 245, Step 2: 249, CS Passed (Step 2 scores were on app), Honors on all but Psych with total of 3 ortho sub-I's (U of Wisc, Wayne, LSU-S) with honors and great letters of rec (as I was told, with 3 ortho and 1 medicine). Obviously no AOA, no publications, but med school involvement. Do have 90% completion of an MBA with healthcare management emphasis (and was brought up constantly and was treated as a good thing...lots of pats on the back for doing it).

Was typically the only FMG at the interview (except for 2), but really did not have any bad experiences from anyone (at least to my face). I would say the number of FMGs and the number of females were about equal in number, if that helps

We'll see what happens