how to find out specifics about away rotations?

Your best resource is finding someone who recently rotated at a place you're interested in. You can do this by asking classmates or finding people on here who will give you the scoop on a place. I think we should start doing more reviews on here in the residency review section. I'm going to post reviews using this account and encourage others to do so (password pleasematch). Also, read the match list that will be coming out after match day.

I would also advise you to rotate at a variety of programs in terms of competitiveness. I would rotate at 2 top tiered places, one mid tiered place and one lower tiered place, regardless of how competitive you think you are, bc at the end of the day you really won't know this until its too late (ie you're not getting enought interviews)

This is quite helpful. Thanks.

How do you have time for doing 4 aways? After I do my home Sub-I I'll only have enough time to do 2 aways with the schedule I got...

I would 3-4 total rotations (including home sub-i). 1-2 top tier, 1 mid tier, 1 lower tier.

In my opinion, 4 away rotations is too many for most applicants. The only reason why I would recommend doing more than 2 aways is if you are a below average applicant who really needs to boost your application and increase your chances at as many programs as possible. I don't want this to turn into a "What are my chances and should I do 15 aways" thread, so I'm going to focus on why I believe 2 aways is sufficient for the large majority of ortho applicants and let you make up your own minds. With that being said, there are a few things you should take into account about aways.

1) Aways are usually expensive - unless you have family/friends/etc who you can stay with, you must factor in housing costs, travel expenses, and basically anything else that you will need while away from home. For me, this averaged over $1000+ per away rotation. This was in addition to the rent, utilities, etc. I was still paying back home while I was gone.

2) Aways are usually more difficult than home rotations - this varies depending on school, type of rotation (i.e. trauma service vs. sports), and lifestyle factors. However, in general, you must adapt to a new city and hospital very quickly, always be on your A game with people you have never worked with, and always work as hard as possible. During my aways, I always put in more hours at the hospital than any of my residents by getting there super early to pre-round, staying late to finish whatever needed to be done, and taking call more frequently. This also doesn't include the time spent studying at home for the next day's cases.

3) The biggest problem with more than 2 aways is burn-out. You don't want to spend all of your time and money spending a month somewhere when you are burnt out. This will reflect poorly on your work ethic, attitude, and performance. I know someone personally and have heard many stories about people on their 3rd or 4th away in a row that are burnt out and don't do as well. I'm not saying this will happen to everyone, but it is just something to keep in mind.

4) You don't need more than 1 letter for your ERAS application from an away rotation. One of the main reasons for an away (in addition to impressing the program while you are there) is to get a strong letter of rec from someone at that program. This shows that not only do you work well at your home institution, but that you are able to adapt quickly and have wht it takes to be successful elsewhere. Sure, you can have more than 1 letter from aways or pick and choose where to send which letters if you have multiple, but 1 strong away letter is all you need. Plus, the ERAS deadline for letters is usually mid-October to the beginning of November, so you will be unable to include any letters earned after that point in your ERAS application.

This is just my 2 cents, but I hope it helps.

I'm probably not competitive enough to get a spot at HSS, but I was wondering if its worth it to try to do an away there (1) to boost what chances I do have and (2) to try to impress people and get a good LOR from a reputable surgeon that will boost my chances everywhere else?

Why HSS? Do you live in NYC? Want to end up in NYC?

If so, why HSS over the other numerous fantastic programs in NYC with great reputations like Columbia, NYU-HJD, Sinai, Lenox Hill, etc.?

This is terrifically helpful. Thank you.

In general I would highly recommend NOT doing an away at places that are known to not offer interviews to all or most of their rotators. Places like HSS and Columbia are notorious for this and I'd suggest that you focus on places that tend to get less rotators so that you have more of a chance to stand out.

Nothing against those aforementioned programs, but I just think it's a waste of a valuable month to do an away at a place like that unless you have your heart set on going there for residency.

So are there programs in the NYC area (or other programs in major east coast cities) that usually interview all rotators? DC, Boston... all the way down to FL? If anyone knows of some just throw it out there - maybe we could keep a running list going since it would probably be beneficial to people reading this site. Thank you

Well, the next question I have to ask is, do you want them to interview you just because, even if they aren't going to rank you?

My home program interviews everyone as they rotate so they don't need to come back for an interview. But that doesn't mean they'll even rank you just because you rotated.

Kind of sucks to waste the money rotating at a place when you basically have no chance to end up there, even if they do automatically interview you.

Yeah that sucks too but you hope that if you interview at a place, they're ranking you somewhere. I mean, how do you know if a place didn't rank you after interviewing you? Unless they don't fill all their spots - which is pretty rare in ortho

I have a question about applying for externships in general. Say you decide you want to do 2 externships... what's a good number of programs to apply to for away rotations? I understand some programs will have more people applying for externships at them than others, but just generally speaking for solid fairly-competitive programs, would most people play it safe and apply to 3 or 4 programs? Just trying to figure out what most people do to make sure they get the externship spots while still not having to back out of spots at too many programs.

Yeah I would apply to 3-4 places if you want to do 2 rotations, especially if you are on the ball and apply early (now).

I didn't apply to more places for aways than I could actually do aways. For one thing, I never got the impression that it was a particularly competitive process. Secondly, if you get scheduled for an away rotation but then have to cancel it, I'd be afraid the program would hold it against you. I've heard that some places won't interview you at all if you apply for an away but then cancel. But that's just through the interview trail gossip mill.

I didn't apply to more places for aways than I could actually do aways. For one thing, I never got the impression that it was a particularly competitive process. Secondly, if you get scheduled for an away rotation but then have to cancel it, I'd be afraid the program would hold it against you. I've heard that some places won't interview you at all if you apply for an away but then cancel. But that's just through the interview trail gossip mill.

I only applied to the 2 programs at which I rotated. Yes, some places can be more competitive than others, but I wouldn't recommend applying to more than you realistically would plan on attending. Although rumor, I agree that it may hurt your chances at a program if you apply for an away, are accepted, then cancel.

so its it safe to say that if we are really on the ball and we get our away application out early (like the first day possible) that we have a good chance of getting accepted for that away rotation?

yeah that certainly increases your odds, but there are a lot of factors at play here, including home students' schedules.

just to balance things out, i did not get 4 rotations i applied for and had to go to one place that wasn't initially very high on my list to rotate. i ended up loving the place and put it high on my list.

to be fair, i didn't apply until april.

If you are not rotating at Arkansas, you def should