Ortho and Women

Bias against? Didn't know there was any. All the programs I know about are actively trying to recruit women.

I think it is actually the exact converse to what you have said. Programs are actively seeking women/minority applicants, and most are even giving them "preferential" consideration when rank lists are made.

I think in the last 5 years there has been a shift in the make up of most resident classes...It used to be just a bunch of "old boys" but now it seems that the tide has turned.

The AAOS made it an clear about 5 years ago that orthopaedics needed more diversity. I have no basis in fact for this, but I think that when a program is site reviewed.....and it is just 25 white males in the residency....that boades poorly for te residency in terms of meeting the AAOS goal of diversity in orthopaedics.

This is solely my opinion and compliation of hearsay and convesations I have had with various people. However, I believe it to be largely accurate.

Some programs are female friendly, some are highly biased against women, and then some are in-between.

Some programs view females as a "necessary" evil, so they advertise they want women in their programs, while behind closed doors they may be entirely opposite. It's entirely a PR front.

While some are actively trying to increase their diversity, welcoming applicants. I don't think they would preferentially rank someone over another just because they were a woman, but if all things being equal, they might be inclined to take a woman over a female over a guy.

Some programs, if they do match a female, view it as something to be "tolerated". Best way to find out is through word of mouth, or rotate there.

Good luck.

WashU's residents:


11/29 are women

Actually, that is exactly what happens. Heard it straight from the mouth of one program director. They ranked all the women they interviewed ahead of the men.

calvinnhobbes - don't be a douchebag trying to correct everybody on this forum. i'm sure different programs do things differently. just because you heard it from "one" program director, doesn't mean they all do it.

go do your internship, man and stop wasting your time trying to correct everybody. sean_j2000 has a good point. gender isn't the sole factor in their decisions regardless of what "one" program director said. and i'm sure you'd definitely be privy to their ranking methodology.

Dude, what crawled up your butt? Chill out dude ad ease off the hyperboles.

I never said EVERY program does anything, of course things are done differently at individual programs. Just said that I know one program where they were actively trying to recruit more women and it was reflected in their rank list. I think it's relevant info for the OP, don't you?

The origional question is a fair question. I've not been through it as a female, but it is fair to want to know. I side with those who say different programs would like to have more women as residents and there are still a few who don't want more. Most programs probably fall somewhere in between.

A good way to tell is to see the make up of the faculty and the residents. Ohio State seems to consistantly have several female residents, and the residency program director is one of several female attendings. I'm sure that has to affect the atmosphere and make it better for a female resident. Grand Rapids also seems to have several females. On the other hand Mt. Carmel in Columbus, Ohio has never had a female resident. They don't have any female attendings that I know of. They may be trying to get a female resident, but from the look of things that would be less likely.

Apply broadly and get into ortho first. After the interviews you can factor all this into your rank list. Being the first female in a traditionally male only program and becoming an orthopaedist would be much better than not getting into ortho at all.

While I agree with the last post about looking at the makeup of the residents and faculty, it's still not 100%, and you have to realize that it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy as well. My program is all male resident-wise currently and we haven't had a female resident in the last 5 years, and the last one switched to Radiology after her intern year. We get labeled as a "good ole boys" program and there is no denying that all of our residents are male. That being said, we have rotators every year that are female who are very strong candidates. I have talked to our chiefs on the committee and it seems like every year we have females ranked ahead of people that match at out program. However, since the feeling is out there that we don't have females, females are potentially less likely to rank us highly for fear that there will be a negative atmosphere. So, even though the makeup of the resident pool is not as diverse as maybe you'd like to see, it doesn't mean that there is an aversion to female residents.

So in relation to your original question, I agree that you should look on the program websites at the makeup of the residents to get a general idea. However, definitely don't pidgeon-hole yourself into only programs that appear females friendly. You may find that a program with all males is looking to become more diverse, or perhaps doesn't get many female applicants. As I would advise all medical students, be smart about where you apply and interview, but go for the programs you want and don't let anyone tell you that you can't go here or there if you want.

rwbrhp29

that is great advice.
there will always be programs who say they want a certain type of applicant but their rank order list does not reflect that. of course, you will never know, because programs rarely go 1-2-3..
apply to programs you want to be part of. do the research. if there are a ton of chicks in the resident or staff ranks, great. if not, that doesn't mean they aren't a great group of guys who just haven't matched a chick.

i'm a 4. we have 2 chicks. no female attendings. in the last 2 years we have ranked females highly both years and did not match them.

there have been posts in the past regarding places who have told people point blank they would not take a female. frankly, there are enough programs out there you could leave those off just in case if you wanted.

either way, you will get a great education no matter where you end up. good luck.

cheers.
fg

at pitt my class has 5/8 females

There are definitely 3 different categories as noted above. Those that are not keen on women are now relatively few but they still exist. I would still go through initial application process if they would otherwise make sense for you to apply to, but I would drop those first if youre debating between programs interviewing on the same day. I know from personal experience that Georgetown is not keen on women, and have heard mixed reviews on Campbell Clinic. Pittsburgh and Columbia are at the other end: they really like diversity including a high proportion of females (assuming they are of equivalent quality) Many fall in between and welcome females but wouldn't be too welcoming about a female having a kid during residency, often more the case at trauma heavy places where this can really hamper everyone.
In general, east coast programs seemed more open to females than some of the smaller midwest programs, but this is just a hunch, have no facts to back it up.
Also, just because a place has no females does NOT mean they are not female friendly and just because they have a token female does not mean they treat her equally. I would try and get additional info on any program you have specific concerns about.

Love the name, man.

I am a Campbell Clinic 4th year resident and as I alluded to in a previous post, just because we have been labeled a "good 'ole boys" program, doesn't mean that as a female you shouldn't apply/interview here. We also get labeled as being very regional, which while there are definitely more of our residents from the south, we are a national program and take people from all around the country every year. In fact, I think being a strong applicant from outside the south may work in your favor applying here. We have mutiple female rotators every year, some of which have been very strong rotators that have been well-liked and recommended by the residents.

As I stated before, I have talked to our senior residents that have sat in the ranking meeting and there have been females ranked high enough to match, but didn't end up matching with us due to their preferences. We have 40/40 males, but 5/8 females in 1 class is equally not representative of the applicant pool. Bottom line, I don't think the Campbell Clinic is anti-female, just like I don't think Pittsburgh is giving females special treatment because they matched 5/8 females in one year. Go for the places you want, and don't let anyone tell you you can't have what you want.

rwbrhp29

You guys are cracking me up. Seriously, I am laughing out loud.