Step 1 Cut off - Need your info

Yeah - Like the guy who has wanted to become a bone doctor since he broke his arm when he 7 years old.

Dude - you're letting a 7 year old make your career decision for you. Enough said.

I agree that this has been true in the past but I think things are beginning to change. I think the upper bar has been raised by women this past yr and the bottom will soon have to follow.

My stats make me a very 'average' applicant if you remove the fact that I am a female. I have a 229 which does not make me inferior, but leaves me far from superior. I have a strong engineering background, division 1 athlete, good research expereince, nonAOA, blah, blah, blah. I have always been considering some kind of surgery, but did not decide definitively on ortho till mid MS3.

The point is, I was told by my chairman who is female friendly that I would absolutely match and to apply to top programs because I could end up there if I wanted. This would ring true with the fact that it is easier to get in as a woman.

However, I have had a rough time getting interviews despite having applied to a wide range and number of programs. I think someone with my stats is no longer competitive enough to get an interview at a top program, I also think there are more woman than usual applying this year. I don't think there is something weird in my application I don't know about, I've been told by multiple people it is very solid and I have great letters.

I have watched as some of my male classmates got interviews at programs I did not with 'lower' stats. I'm really excited for them, but I'm also frustrated too. So am I caught in the middle? Who knows? Maybe I just applied to programs who already feel they have enough women right now, maybe they have a strong applicant from their home programs, etc, etc. All I can do is keep trying and come up with a back-up plan.

I guess my point is, we never really know why we don't get the interviews we want, but try not to resent the people who do, its just wasted energy and makes you more miserable/bitter. There are male and female applicants who may get an interview we feel we deserved because they decided at the last second to do ortho, or don't really want it, or whatever reason fires you up. Just keep focusing on yourself and trying to figure out how to make yourself look better.

I think things are begining to even out for males and females as the years pass.

How about posting the opposite side?
I have 243 in my step I, middle of class in top 10 med school and didn't get interviews at many places.

Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
MUSC - 205
Wake - 205
UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)

Feel free to think whatever about the rest of my application, but my point is that step I by itself has little meaning.

Of course it has little meaning, but there is a lot of talk out there about minimum scores for your application to be reviewed (as in you could be AOA, a professional athlete, have 20 publications and a couple of books in ortho, but at certain schools your app gets the circular file based on step 1 of 219 if 220 is the cutoff). This thread was started with the hope of showing that the idea of a strict cutoff is a load of crap at many programs. Yes there is more to the app than scores. There are plenty of people who got surprising interviews and rejections. This thread is basically to debunk the myth that if you have a lower score you shouldn't apply to certain schools (although even more helpful would be to know which schools do automatically toss apps with scores below a certain level without even looking at the rest of the application, should any of those actually exist).

It looks like a guy with 205 got interviews at some awfully good programs. I assume there must be something else in his application that made him attractive. I state this because I had a similar Step 1 score and also had something very distinctive on my resume'. That should be noted in anybodies interpretation of board scores.

Besides, I think this whole concept of using board scores is bull ****. It basically allows the programs to not have to think and use an exam that was never intended to gauge the caliber of student, and an exam which 90% of the material doesn't apply to Ortho, decide who they interview and how they rank them. I know it is only a piece of the puzzle, but its the piece that opens the door, so maybe in the overall ranking it is not very important, but if anything it limits interviews.

Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
MUSC - 205
Wake - 205
UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
University of Kansas - 228
UMKC- 230
University of Virginia - 204
SUNY Upstate - 204
University of New Mexico - 230
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)

dr2,

Just curious but even though you weren't able to pull down interviews at some good programs where did you end up matching with such a great step 1? I only ask b/c i have a similar board score and am probably in the middle of my class also. just curious....

Take all these posted scores with a grain of salt...I interviewed at St. Marys and at UCLA with a score lower than those posted.

That is kinda the point of the list (to let people know what schools might give you a chance with a lower score, so they can focus on places they have a chance). Care to post your score for those interviews?

Hey ... just browsing today; here are a few more additions from last year's applicants & I put them back into alphabetical order by state

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
GWU - (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
Medical College of Georgia - 205
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
University of Kansas - 228
U Kentucky - 205
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
U of Michigan - 205
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
SUNY Upstate - 204
HSS - 215 (from the PD)
Columbia - (No thx with 243)
HJD - (No thx with 243)
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
Wake - 205
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Drexel - (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - (No thx with 243)
Brown - 228 (No thx with 243)
MUSC - 205
Greenville - 205
University of Virginia - 204
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205

So here are some more... of note, I had a strong step 2, which was available after I had received about 1/3 of the listed interviews. Point being, a strict 230 cutoff is amyth in my opinion.

UCLA - 230
UC Davis - 205 (rotated) (No thx with 243)
Loma Linda -205
San Francisco/St. Mary's program - 230
Stanford-205 (No thx with 243)
Yale-205 (No thx with 243)
UConn- 222
GWU - 222 (No thx with 243)
University of Florida - Jacksonville - 230, 205 (rotated)
Medical College of Georgia - 205
University of Illinois - 228, 204
Southern Illinois University - 228
Rush - (No thx with 243)
U. Chicago - (No thx with 243)
Northwestern - (No thx with 243)
University of Kansas - 228
U Kentucky - 205
Hopkins - (No thx with 243)
Union- 222
UMass - 222
Tufts- 222
U of Michigan - 205
UMKC- 230
University of New Mexico - 230
SUNY Upstate - 204
HSS - 215, 222 (from the PD)
Columbia - 222 (No thx with 243)
HJD - 222 (No thx with 243)
Mt Sinai- 222
St Lukes- 222
LIJ- 222
Downstate- 222
Einstein- Montefiore- 222
Stony Brook- 222
Albany- 222
Syracuse- 222
Buffalo- 222
Rochester- 222
UNC - (No thx with 243)
Duke - 205 (No thx with 243)
Wake - 205
UMDNJ (both)- 222
Monmouth- 222
University of Oklahoma - 230
Oregon Health Sciences - 205 (No thx with 243)
Drexel - 222 (No thx with 243)
Jefferson - 222 (No thx with 243)
Brown - 222, 228 (No thx with 243)
MUSC - 205
Greenville - 205
Einstein- Phile 222
Drexel- 222
Temple- 222
University of Virginia - 204
Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)
West Virginia - 205

What were some people's view of some schools cuttoffs. I know I know please dont drop me the link to Charting Outcomes unless its the new Data from NRMP. Congrads to all those who Matched!!!! Godspeed and Good luck for who will match on the second try. Finally be blessed for us 3rd years Im so excited.

This thread is ridiculous.

You're already spending an obscene amount of money no doubt, so why try to save a negligible amount now by trying to avoid programs that "might" have USMLE cutoffs?

To Med 007: I think your idea of starting this thread was great. Its nice to see how you are thinking of others & trying to help. Its encouraging. Thank you.

What is meant by "no thx?" i.e. Univ of Washington - (No thx with 243)

It probably means "no thanks" as in he got rejected with a 243.

Um, getting an interview doesn't mean you're in the door.

The guy with a 210 is still at the bottom of the rank list compared to the guy with a 260, unless he has like 10+ publications and his father endowed the medical center.

That's absolutely not true. For instance at Duke, Dr. Hardaker tells you that once you receive an interview, your Step I and Step II scores are removed from your file.

The candidate with a 210 that people want to work with will always beat out the dildo with a 260 that no one likes.

Keep thinking that. Even the questions you're going to be asked by the interviewer would be vastly different for someone with a 260 versus someone with a 210. The latter score forces you against a wall to prove yourself; while the former just has to prove that he's not a dildo. You would have to be a humongous dildo and living under a rock if you can't put up an act for even one day.

I don't know what your experience has been, but I did not find this to be true at all. I had a very average Step I score (average for US med students, below average for ortho applicants), and it was not mentioned once in any of my interviews. The questions I was asked were the same that everyone else was asked: "tell me about yourself", "tell me about X on your CV", general ethics/current events questions, etc...No one asked me about Alport Syndrome to make sure my basic science knowledge was up to snuff.

My experience has been that board scores are a minimal factor once you get your interview. If you get an interview, then you're qualified for the job as far as grades and board scores are concerned. After that, it's a matter of "who would i want to work with".

The attitude that a 250+ Step I score will put you ahead of everyone with a lower score is dangerous and misinformed. It's exactly this attitude that leads to the guy with a stellar score who gets too cocky, doesn't match and is left wondering "what happened?".

this last post is off in my opinion.

i obviously cant speak of their interview experience, but to say that board scores don't matter much ("minimal factor") once you got the interview is wrong- i was told on a few occasions that although my board scores were good, they were not amazing, and since you will be competing in the future with (amazing) orthopaedic residents nationwide (since now most <230 applicants have been taken out of the system and they are in other medical fields), the program leadership may think this will lead to lower OITE or other scores on your part. no PD or chair wants to have a resident team who scores below the national average on these tests even though there has got to be such a program somewhere.

yes, what you have beyond the step1/2 scores matters much in the interview, but dont be mistaken in assuming they dont consider your board score as well even after the interview has taken place.