best california programs?

No love for UCSD? Peds is pretty damn impressive there. And the program seems pretty strong overall. The residents operate a good deal pretty early.

despite my name, i will try to be unbiased here about stanford vs. ucla. i think they are both great programs in great locations with reasonably good lifestyles. i know a couple of recent resident graduates from ucla who are practicing in the LA area quite well, and they both told me that they would pick stanford right now over ucla. in regards to the operative experience, they said that they felt comfortable in knowing how to do most procedures in general orthopaedics as well as their subspecialty, but that they still felt like they were acquiring a basic comfort level doing procedures on their own during their fellowship as well as their first few years of training. in other words, they were well-versed in how things are done but spent a lot of time after residency acquiring the basic surgical skills that many people would like to acquire during residency and build on in fellowship and practice. having said that, i don't think it makes a big difference in the end because residents from both programs ultimately match well for fellowships and do well in practice. i do think that stanford is significantly stronger if your interests are in hand, sports, joints, or spine. ucla's big hand guy, neil jones, recently left for uci, so uci definitely has a better hand department right now. and i do believe they get to operate much more at uci and stanford (and also ucsf and uc davis for that matter) than at ucla. usually that comes at the expense of going to a lesser name program that is not as academic for those who want to eventually go into academics, but in the case of stanford, as well as ucsf and uc davis, it's the best of both worlds. that's just my opinion based on talking to ucla resident graduates and being quite familiar with the stanford program.

I am a current resident at UCI. Our operative experience is definitely our strength, and we are strong in many different areas. I would say that we're a little "trauma-light" but I feel comfortable that I'll be able to handle almost anything that comes in the door aside from pelvis/acetabular work. I would say our strengths are hand, spine, joints, and sports. We have two new hand guys, Dr. Neil Jones who trained a bunch of the hand guys in California, and Dr. Greg Rafijah who is an absolute delight to work with in the OR. Spine is mainly with Dr. Nitin Bhatia who trained with Eismont in Miami. Because of our strength in spine, I think more of our residents are going towards spine. One of our chiefs, and two of our PGY-4's are going into spine. We do most of our joints with Orthopaedic Specialty Institute with two great private guys and at the VA where you run the show but are mentored by a former chair of UCI who is now in private practice as well as running the VA. We do sports with OSI, Kaiser, and at the VA. Foot and ankle is strong if you're motivated with Dr. Ross, the former president of the Foot and Ankle Society.

With our new chair, the residents have more say in the application process. He seems to value our opinion on what rotators and interviewers we liked and which we didn't. Two of our current interns rotated here.

Its a great lifestyle. After your PGY-2 year, its all home call. Good weather, lots to do, etc etc.

Thank you! Check you PMs please

I rotated at Stanford and UCLA as a sub I and was impressed by both programs. It is my opinion that the OR experience at UCLA is great and the rumors are greatly exaggerated. If anything, I thought the residents at UCLA were doing more than the residents at Stanford, but I thought they were doing plenty at both programs. Anyway, my advice would be to go see the program for yourself. I think you get great training at most of the the Cali programs and you should really ask yourself where you want to spend 5 years. I only wished I would have matched there!

lol bonediddly thats a good one.

I am particularly interested in this topic as I am trying to decide whether or not I want to rotate at UCLA or Stanford this fall.

At this point I'm undecided about having an academic career vs. private practice. Ultimately, I'd like a program that has a good reputation, good Op experience, and decent research.

UCLA worries me in regards to the lack of operative experience. I mean, I don't want to be abused for 5 straight years but I also don't like the idea of a fellow-driven program where I'll be retracting and cutting sutures at a PGY3.

Stanford seems to be really up and coming and has a lot of potential. It carries with it a great name that is recognized both academically and in the community.

I guess my question is- are the rumors about UCLA and the lack of operative experience true? Does anyone know which programs in CA specfically favor rotators (i.e. take all or mostly rotators)? Some people say that Davis heavily favors rotators but has gotten away from that in recent history.

I really appreciate any response on this topic, especially if residents from UCLA or people that rotated at UCLA can comment. Also, if Stanford folk want to weigh in that'd be awesome too. Thanks!

ORS

I gotta disagree with you on almost every point. St Marys is "laid back" because there is little organization over there, NOT something desirable in training, Stanford is known to have a pretty cush lifestyle. UCDavis has BY FAR AND AWAY the best trauma experience in California. "Arthritis" is great at UCSF, Stanford, and probably pretty good at UCLA, but at UCSF you do so many prim. TKA/THA as 2/3 that as a 4 you can fly on your own, and Vail/Bozic/Ries is pretty strong. Peds at Davis Shrine is great, UCSF goes there too. Spine is top notch at Davis and UCSF. Hand probably best at UCI I think.

I think compared to the East, all Cali programs are pretty nice lifestyles, just pick an area that you want to be in. SD very different from Davis, from SF, from LA.

As a current resident at UCSF, I would say that 1st yr is anything but malignant. It's actually pretty sweet. We do 2mo of ortho trauma, & 1mo of Peds ortho, then we only do 4months of hardcore gen surg (ie 2mo Trauma, 1mo Vascular, & 1mo Neurosurg) which are actually high yield rotations. The rest are rotations like 2mo Plastics/Hand, MSK Radiology, ICU, Anes, Rehab, etc. UCSF is getting even bigger with new attendings and the new Orthopaedic Institute.

thanks for the reply. i guess i'm a little surprised that we don't hear as many great things said about ucsf for how well-known that place is, and also surprised that stanford was so well-regarded a few years ago when you applied, since it seems like they only recently made changes for the better. and ucla always seems like a mystery - depending on who you talk to, you can hear completely different, pretty much opposite takes on that program.

I can only give you info from a few years ago when I was applying. Note that I know great fellows, attendings, etc who have graduated from all the programs below, but here is my input from a residents perspective.

Most operative experience:
Harbor, Stanford, USC

Least operative experience:
UCLA

Cush program:
Saint Mary's

Best reputation:

UCD, Stanford

Good lifestyle:

UCSD

Best trauma:
USC

Best Sports:
Stanford

Best PEDs:
Davis

Best Arthritis:
UCLA, Stanford

Least academic (plus or minus)
St. Mary's

Cush lifestyle:

UCLA

UCSF: Malignant first year, then a great program
UCI: Was undergoing changes, so I know little about this program

come on, nobody? how about i throw out something people will respond to? i think loma linda is the best program in the country.