"Less competitive" residencies

I agree. That is why I emphasized doing your research on EACH program you are interested in and not just lumping them by region or "type" of program.

two things-- one, if you have crappy boards, you probably do not have a chance at places like harvard, hss, etc. you'd like to think they look at more, but they don't. their idea of considering low board scores is interviewing a 230, because everyone there is a 250. second, regional rotations only really help at the program you rotate in. umass isn't really going to consider a kid from iowa just because he rotated at BU. rotate where you want to go. but be realistic. don't waste a month because you think your personality will overcome any academic deficiency. this can definitely be true, but only at a program that will consider it.
both of these perspectives are purely from experience.

cheers.
fg

First off, there are more academic programs to apply to, so they are talked about more b/c there are more of them. Also, I think it is safe to say that most (at least all the residents at community programs i know, which is a lot) residents at community programs are not there because they dropped so low on their rank lists that they did not get into a academic program. People have differing tastes/desires and most people that are at community programs are there because they want to be, not because they could not cut it at a university.
So your remaining question is , "is there are real difference?". Of course there are. What your question should be is, do they matter when considered as a whole. It depends on who you ask.
I think it becomes difficult to group them into "academic" vs "community" b/c within each group there is tremendous variety. Are each and every academic training program the same? Of course not, so you cant really lump them into one sum. Same goes for community programs. There are a variety of models. Some have university affiliations but the majority of staff are private. Others have no university but functionally are a academic program. Carolinas Med Center is a good example. They pump out a ton of research and have big name staff is several subspecialties. The outgoing chairman of the AOA, the current president of the OTA and the president of the AO foundation are all staff at CMC, but they are a private program with no school affiliated with them. Would you not consider them "academic"?

There is also the belief that you cannot get as good a fellowship out of a community program. I also dont believe that to be the case. We have had people do great fellowships like hand@mayo, spine@case, trauma@Carolinas X2, Foot@UWash, Foot@baltimore, joints@harvard, shoulder@columbia

the vast majority of residents enter private practice, regardless of type of training program and it is possible to go either route from either type of program.

If you insist on grossly generalizing, academic programs focus more on research, tend to have a more comprehensive diadactic schedule, and have lower operative case totals than community programs. Community programs are considered less "malignant" (I hate that term), operate a lot early, are often in smaller cities, and often have smaller numbers of residents/year

I think the better info to seek out is info on the individual programs themselves, as there are great, good, ok, and "I hope I dont drop that low on my rank list" types of places in the academic and community pool alike.

I agree that the words "less competitive" are not correctly applied to any orthopaedic surgery residency... But the stigma of community programs in particular is that there is a difference regarding the level of education residents recieve versus the academic centers... Furthermore, applicants often apply to academic centers over community programs, or favor academic centers over community programs in their rank lists. My question remains, is there a real difference, and if so what is it?

I think the phase "less competitive" is a bit of a misnomer. If you look at the info in the "charting outcomes of the match" post you will see that there are something like 20% fewer residency spots available than US Seniors applying for them.


The only "chip shots" are in other areas like FP, Int Med

I would not include Geisinger, Lennox Hill, or Hamot on this list... These all are excellent programs, with very strong experience/reputation for teaching. But most importantly for applicants, these programs are not chip shots to get into... they each get competitive applicants and rarely go very low on their rank lists.

Any residents at these programs out there want to comment?

I don't know if this answers any questions, but I am from the south and did rotations in all corners of the country (Yale, Stanford, Emory) because (1) I wanted to leave the south and (2) I didn't have any geographic limitations other than wanting to be in a large city. Did it help me land interviews in different regions? Maybe, although I only got 2 interviews on the west coast (I applied to like 10 or 15), none in Chicago, and 1 in the DC area. Most of my interveiws were in the NE or the south. So my perception of the whole process is that if you want one rotation to represent a region, then that may work for the south and the NE. But it may not make a difference for places like DC, Chicago, and California. Although I have heard that folks that do one rotation in Chaicago tend to get more Chicago interveiws. I cannot say for sure because I didn't rotate there.

Perhaps I am mistaken and didn't catch on fast enough (not the first time this would have happened), but I believe there is a limit of 4 or 5 personal statements on ERAS. I used all the available slots for all the programs that wanted extra stuff (MCAT, etc.) and would have liked to have a couple of regionalized ones. If someone knows you really can get unlimited PS loaded, please let the upcoming applicants know so they're not easily confused as I may have been. Despite all this, I'm not sure how many places really read your PS, let alone make decisions based on it.

In regard to doing rotations various places helping you, I definitely think so. Almost every program I interviewed at, asked me were I did my away rotations, I think partly to gauge what type of program you're shooting for and partly to see where. Also, before the interview, they can get a sense of where you rotated at based on your LORs (say they're all from west coast programs that you did you're aways at), which may tell the midwest, south, and east you cared so little about those areas you didn't even bother rotating at the great programs they have to offer. While I can't say for sure this is really the case, it seems logical that programs have figured out that applicants want to go to the area that they do their aways.

If I could change anything about this whole process it would have been to spread out my aways (1 west, 1 midwest, 1 east) based more on program interest, rather than geographic bias. Of course knowing which programs you're interested in, especially away from where you are currently, is tough, so the best you can do is talk to people or read reviews on this forum. While I'm at it, I'll recommend UNC, Univ. of Wisc, and Temple as places I wished I had rotated. The other thing would have been to apply to a ton more programs just to give myself more flexibility in scheduling and choosing interviews.

ok, people applying this year-- if you write different essays, give them very specific names and make sure you send them to the right programs. seems like a given, but when you have several slightly different versions and 40 (or 50 0r 60) programs, mistakes happen....

like getting to an interview in galveston and having to explain why your essay says you're ready to leave texas....

and having to choose between looking careless, insincere, or geographically unaware that galveston is actually in texas....

yeah, i'm cool.

cheers.
firegirl

ERAS lets you write as many personal statements as you like - you just give them each a name and then assign them to programs individually. Even if you don't plan on writing region-specific PS's, you will probably have several different versions anyway because some schools want you to include MCAT scores and other random stuff in your PS. Make sure you check every program website for their app requirements! Some of the more self-involved programs even ask you to write a PS specifically addressing why you want to come to THEIR program.

How can you write multiple personal statements??? I have not gone through this process yet... does ERAS have a form for that?

WISCite

Regarding the regional issue]

good point..I should have done this. and also, you could write different personal statements for different regions of the country if you really wanted to go nuts!

good luck!

I'm starting med school at the University of Alabama at Birmingham in the fall and I am currently extremely interested in ortho. Would be nice to know what you guys thought of the program here and others in the southeast regions.

Good question BP....

ANYONE have some insight?

-WISCite

Regarding the regional issue: if you are in a given region (I am midwest) but determined to train in another (east/south atlantic), can you enhance your chances of getting many interviews in an area by doing a single rotation? Stated differently, if I rotate at one DC program will the others in DC/Baltimore area take note? Florida? NC? Etc...
(I understand there may be no clear answer)

Lenox Hill is one of the MORE competitive programs in NYC and in the country. They have some of the top names in the country (Ranawat, Nicholas, Hershman). Nearly all who interview there are AOA from top schools around the country. I am not a resident there, but even just being aroung the area, I recognize that including them among the less competitive programs shows a lack of insight. Personally, if given the choice, I would choose Lenox Hill even over Columbia any day of the week.

I agree. I'm from a midwest med school and was able to get a fair number of midwest interviews, but only a handful of east coast interviews, zero florida interviews, one west (Utah) interview. Region factors in unless you happen to be a "superstar" and then you might get just about every interview you apply for. Good Luck!

cannot emphasize regional preference enough....for soon to be 4th years, ur chances of obtaining an interview is significantly higher in your region.....And if you are considering a diff region...rotate there.

i'm from nyc and i went 0 for florida, 0 for chicago ...1/4 in texas...and only 2 interview offers west of the mississippi.

Were the LSU programs always less competitive or just since Katrina?

I would take UVA off the "less competitive" list. With their faculty and research facilities. They were pulling in about 600 applicants too during interview season. UF-Jacksonville is a good addition to the list. Consider Atlanta Medical Center as well. Keep in mind that many of these programs are still competitive due to reagional preferences when it comes to the applicants they interview, etc.