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Orthogate

  Monday, 26 November 2007
  12 Replies
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I would just like to take this opportunity to tell people that it is not worth it to schedule an away rotation at the Medical College of Wisconsin. Doing a rotation there doesn't guarantee you an interview. It seems as though if you are not a student there, they only evaluate you on paper. I was there earlier this academic year, and while there I was told that I was doing a great job, got along great with the residents (I keep in touch with them even now); I pretty much received extremely positive feedback from attendings as well as residents. My board scores are not very competitive, and I was upfront with them about my scores, regardless they made it seem as though they were looking forward to seeing me during interviews. I worked hard, was always there before the residents, tried to do as much of their work as I was qualified to do, and stayed until the last resident left which earned me an "Honors" grade on the rotation; I was really looking forward to interviewing there. It is an excellent program, very well rounded, and my experience there made it #1 on my list of programs. I was told that there's no guarantee I would receive an interview, however that was well after my rotation was over, when I inquired about the status of my application. Recently, I received an email saying that they will not be offering me an interview. I just wanted to take this opportunity to let everyone who views this that it is not worth it to take the time out to find a place to live in milwaukee, waste a month's worth of rent and time rotating there as they don't seem to take your work during your rotation into account when looking over your application. Since it seems that they offer interviews based on how you look "on paper" you might as well rotate elsewhere where they guarantee interviews to rotators (almost any other program!), as a rotation done here doesn't seem to affect whether you receive an interview or not. I understand this may seem like a rant from a ticked off student, but I've tried to be as objective as possible; I just don't want someone to go through what I just went through. I appreicate any input on this, thank you.
18 years ago
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#53688
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Personally, I have no problem with what MCW did. What you should have said is that if you didn't do well on your boards and aren't an average or better ortho applicant, then don't bother doing an away rotation at MCW because you aren't guaranteed an interview. I'm sorry that you worked so hard and it didn't pay off, but I worked hard for 3 years, did very well on Step 1, received honors in 4/6 3rd year rotations, wrote a systematic review entirely by myself, and I still didn't get an interview there. One month of "hard work" shouldn't trump 3 years of it, in my opinion.
18 years ago
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#53689
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I understand your opinion and you make many valid points, but I believe that the majority of applicants (if not all) do away rotations at places they are considering very highly on their lists in order for them to get to know the program and its people well, as well as the program getting to know them more in depth than how they look on paper in order increase their chances of matching. If doing an away rotation doesn't fulfill any one of those, then I feel that the time could be better spent at another institution where they are (and have been in my experience), regardless of whether you are a poor, average, or superstar applicant. My purpose in writing this was not to debate whether what they did was right or wrong, just to let people know that this is what happened, in case they are thinking of rotating there.

By the way, if everyone thought like you did, there would be no purpose of away rotations because everyone would just be evaluated on 3 years of hardwork done at one institution...basically all that would matter is how you look on paper, I'm glad that's not how it really is!
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18 years ago
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#53690
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Arthroscopic, I can totally understand your frustration and it seems warrented. If your board scores where so bad they should have told you when you applied for the away that you where not going to get an interview. If you worked hard on an away, got good feedback and did not get an interview that is not right. Programs want us to be up front with them and we deserve same respect.
18 years ago
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#53691
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hey orthoguy....no need to down play the hard work of somebody else just b/c you thought you worked harder. AS was just expressing his frustration.
18 years ago
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#53692
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yeah--that's tough. sorry man. It would be nice if programs screened sub-I applications to only take applicants that are competitive on paper for their program (some do!). On the bright side, you don't have to waste a couple days and a bunch of money to interview there--a lot of programs interview all rotators even if they don't have a chance of matching. I would rather have a program be realistic and decline me an interview than to be invited just to save face. Anyway, future applicants will appreciate your post and maybe inquire about their competiveness before doing a sub-I somewhere.

Good luck!

D
18 years ago
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#53693
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Your right it would have been much better for them to waste your time for an interviewing and then just not rank you so you feel better.

Be glad they let you know now instead of on match day!
intj
18 years ago
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#53694
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although an interview might make you feel better, it certainly wont make your pocketbook feel good.

I realize that it may seem unfair to spend a month, work hard, and not get an interview. But if the higher ups that decide who gets interviews just dont think you are a competative candidate, I think they are doing a you a favor, instead of getting your hopes up/spending money/spending time, etc...not being callous, just realistic.
18 years ago
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#53695
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I agree with the above stated, my problem is that the man said he got excellent feedback so there is a serious disconnect. If one of the attendings or resdients said something to the effect that we think you have alot to improve on or something like that I totally understand. However how do you tell a rotator you did great man, then not give them an interview. Its just like telling 10 programs that they are your number on choice. at end of day they did do you a favor by not interviewing you if you had not chance to match there, I just want people to shoot straight, we are all grown men and woman and can take it. And if we know that people are being honest then we can get excited when people do tell you that your doing a good job. I realize this is idealistic but I would be pissed if I was told hey great job, your honored and then did not get interview.
18 years ago
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#53696
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There is a difference between doing a good job, getting great feedback, and being a competative candidate. I think that if you do a great job, get along well, and would make a good resident, you should be given an opportunity. Some chairman (or whomever decides) may disagree, and see you on paper only.

ArthroscopicSpine: You may want one of the residents to check on this for you, if you are close to one of them. It may be that in part of the filtering process (it IS done, to reduce the number of competative applications you have to download and review), you got looked over. Good luck.
18 years ago
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#53697
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while i think that itchy brings up an excellent point, it would be very difficult for AS to turn around and use the bridge that he just burned.

how anonymous do you really think this board is? i wonder how hard it would be to figure out who the applicant is who:
1) rotated
2) did not get an interview
3) called the office to find out why they didn't get an interview

do you really think they don't know EXACTLY who just posted an item saying "don't rotate at MCW."

it's one thing to feel you were led astray.

it's another to air your dirty laundry on an 'anonymous' forum.

you should take solace in the fact that your story is very similar to ones posted here year after year. when programs go through and rank the residents, it is very often that you will hear the phrase "will make a good resident, just not here." maybe they thought you were smart and hard working, but that you just wouldn't fit in there. who knows?

either way, you are spared the time and money required to interview. what if you had to cancel an interview at a program that actually wants you so that you could go to MCW? would that make you feel better.

the match is a VERY rational, and applicant friendly system. just wait until fellowship interviews come around. you will find yourself longing for these days.
18 years ago
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#53698
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We had a rotator not get an interview at our program last year, only to be realized after he called a few of us that he worked with. We notified the department and the mistake was reversed. He is now a resident in our program, and a great resident who we were lucky to match. It happens, but I would have contacted the program before burning bridges.
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