LOR limits?

temple says it will take only 3 LOR per its website.

Hopkins 4
Harvard 4
Temple 3

i think it would be very rare for a program to "throw out" your application or LOR if you sent the max of 4 per ERAS. I talked to many programs last year and NOT one told me i couldn't send more. The # they give usually is their MIN requirement. Just FYI for you applicants this year, i also brought LOR's with me to my interview for them to add to my file (which they were more than happy to do). Hey, if you have good LORs (more than the 4 ERAS will let you submit), why shouldn't you use them. I would be surprised if someone would tell you NO. and if they did, i'd tell them to get the stick out of their *ss......good luck.

oh yeah, and in reality, you can actually send more than 4 via ERAS. e.g. programs periodically download your info (which you can track) during the whole process, and do a final download on their DUE date. SO, if you submit 4 LORs on.....say today. and the coordinator downloads your info.....they'll get those 4 LORs. NOW, say next week you decide to change one of those LORs. Then, they download your info again....now they have 5 LORs for you. (the original 4, then the new ONE....b/c the other 3 were the same....so now they have 5.) I'm not recommending you try to play around and have them download 8 different LORs for you.....you can just bring them to the interview with you.....trust me, no ortho doc is going to read all those anyway. Just wanted to make the point that in essence, you really aren't technically limited to 4 LORs. (unless something changed since last year)

What you just stated about letters of rec is possibly false. Per the FAQ for documents on ERAS:

6. Can I "De-Assign" documents (i.e Personal Statement or LOR) and replace it with a different document?

Yes. When the residency program downloads your new documents, the old document will be overwritten in the software. However, if the residency program printed a hard copy of the original document, they will have both documents.

Ca5(PO4)3OH & chee68 are both correct. Most of these #s are the minimun # of LORs except for Temple. Contacted UNC, 2 is the minumun not the max # of LORs.

For NYU/HJD, I have hear that Zuckerman only wants 3 LORs and he look unfavorably on those who submit more than 3 (as this shows one cannot follow directions). This is second hand information so take it with a grain of salt. Anyone heard the same?

yes, as i stated, IF they download your info....i.e, hardcopy, and you change or "de-assign" an LOR and add a new one....then when they download your info AGAIN, they will have an extra LOR for you in the file. Again, i'm not saying try to buck the system....i'm just making a point. most programs aren't going to care if you send in one extra letter. It's shouldn't be held against you if you have 4 people that like you instead of just 3, right. Anyway, as i said earlier, you can always bring a LOR that you didn't submit to ERAS with you on your interview for them to add to your file.
ok, enough about that

Chee68, downloading your application and printing a hardcopy are not the same thing. Each place has a computer program that allows them to look at your info on the screen. That means they have downloaded your info, but the info remains on the computer. It does not automatically print out. They would have to then actively print out your letters in order to have a hard copy. Only in that case would they get more than the 4 allowed LORs if you deassigned one and substituted it for another.

If they download your info, and you change your LOR assignments, then the LOR you deselected gets overwritten by the new LOR you selected. The computer only allows them to see 4 LORs. So in order for your plan to work the residency program would have to download your info, then actively print out a hard copy, then you could change your LOR assignments and get in extra copies. Very long shot in my opinion.

Bottom line: download and hard copy not the same thing

first, i didn't mean for it to sound like a "plan." i actually said not to "try" to do this.
All i know is when i went thru this last year, i called almost every place i was interested in, and asked about the # of LORs. (on the previous ?) not one place said they wouldn't take more than the minimum. But, (to our ?) i wanted to change an LOR, so i "de-assigned" it on ERAS, and switched it to the one i wanted. so, i called to make sure that they had the new one, and she said she had the new one, plus the other 4. and said that was fine.
SO, you are probably right in how ERAS works and their computer program. I'm not one for computer programming, so i will bet that you are correct. Maybe they "printed a hard copy" and i lucked out. Don't know, really. Regardless, my original point to all of you applying was simply don't worry about the # of LORs. send in the # they ask for, call if you want to add a 4th (i.e, if they ask for only 3 minimum), and again, you can always bring them with you on interview day. (of course, you have to go thru the whole ERAS, 'i don't waive my right' thing to get a copy of your LOR.)
anyway, good luck

This is just my 2 cents worth, so don't take it as gospel.

When I submitted my app. late in Septmeber I didn't have any of my LOR from my 3 summer aways, nor the medicine letter I thought was in my file.

So, I submitted the 3 community ortho doc letters I had, and my G-surg site director LOR. As all 4 of the above letters rolled in over the next month, I deselected my initial LOR and marked the new ones instead. As previously mentioned, almost every program downloaded the new letter. In the end, many of my programs downloaded 7-8 letters.

Perhaps some would think this is a nice loophole, but as I was concerned at the time, I think many of the busy coordinators and attendings that read these letters get irritated when there are far more than requested (perhaps I should question for our friendly coordinator rather than speculate).

In the end, I just received my 9th interview invite, and from what I can tell everyone else with comparable numbers, etc gets over 15-20 invites. While there are a couple of reasons I may have recieved fewer interviews, I think one of the main ones is I sent in way too many LOR and pissed some people off.

Given my situation I probably would have done the same thing, but my advice for future applicants is to encourage your letter writters to get your LOR in soon. Tell them you're applying soon; say Aug. 15th is your deadline, not "whenever you get a chance".

Secondly, check a month or two before submitting your app (still in time to get someone to rewrite a letter) to ensure all the letters you think are in your file are really there, even if you have somehow confirmed this previously.

I have a question regarding letters.

When is the ERAS application submission date (or the range)?

Is there benefit from submitting your application at the earliest date? Does it matter [ie, do applications for residency work similar to med school (first come first serve)]?

Is it a concern that I am planning two away rotations (that I would like to get letters from) in late August through mid-October?

Are my questions and parenthesis/brackets getting out of hand?

Thanks,
-WISCite

I just wanted to add one questions to WISCite post.
If one only does 3 letters, should all 3 be from an orthopedic doc, or are general surgery or medicine letters worth while.
Thanks

i was told by a program director that they best be from ortho. if not ortho then gen surg, i wouldn't use a medicine letter. the same PD told me that they've only given consideration to gen surg letter once. the only reason weight was given to the gen surg letter is because the letter was "the best letter of any kind that was ever seen". so...

From what I recall, ERAS opens around the 1st week of september. Most deadlines are Nov 1, but some programs want them earlier (oct 15). From what I could tell, most programs send out their invites in big batches (NOT first come first serve). However, some coordinators will download applications as they are recieved - so you might have an advantage to getting the app in early as it might get evaluated earlier at some places. The application also doesn't get submitted all at once - pieces get added to it along the way (extra letters, deans letter, transcript, etc... depending on the speed of your school in uploading them to ERAS).
That being said, getting letters early is nice as you don't have to worry about them anymore. You have to remember that it takes a while for them to be written, and then get mailed to your school, and then for your school to upload them. Thus there are several places where they can get delayed. I don't think the august/september rotation is a big problem, but I wouldn't count on a letter from mid-october making it in time.
As far as non-ortho letters, there seems to be some disagreement on this board. I think you should try to get enough ortho letters to populate your application (1 chair letter + 3 others). Some places require a medicine letter and some places require a resident letter, so I would keep that in mind. What I did was send all ortho letters unless a place specifically asked for something else. This meant that I had 6 total letters, and sent different ones to different places depending on their requirements.

Gamma prety much nailed it, with a couple minor corrections. ERAS opened August 15th, and Sept 1st was the first date we could submit the application to the programs we applied to. In other words, you have 2 weeks to complete the application before the earliest submission date. I didn't get the impression that it was necessary to have your app in on that date, but I also regret not having my app in on time just in case it does matter to a few places. Certainly, as I mentioned previously you don't have to have all your letters in at the same time you submit your app, but again, why take the chance of making more work for the coordinators and pissing them off if you can help it. By the way, it was tight getting my Sept rotation LOR in, while I know people have done it, I wouldn't have wanted to stress about getting an Oct. LOR in on time (some places like Case Western and UIC, start sending out invites in mid Oct.).

Regarding who to get LOR's from, there is some disagreement. Everyone agrees most of your LOR's should be from ortho attendings, but a few places require some other letter (med attending, gsurg attending, resident, etc.). Others people say that one of your LOR should be from something outside of ortho, even if they don't specifically ask for one, to show you're more well rounded. Med attendings are notorious for writing excellent letters, so I went that route.

Good luck. This whole process is a pain, but as long as you're prepared for that, it's tolerable, perhaps it'll even be a little fun.