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  Monday, 20 March 2006
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I'm still getting questions about the places I've rotated, so rather than respond to personal PMs, I thought I'd post this to benefit all the future west coast otho hopefuls.

St. Mary's is a small (3 per year) community program in SF. They spend a third of their time at St. Mary's (relatively slow, very cushy private hospital with 4-7 elective cases each day in joints, sports, and spine with good teaching attendings, and the chairman), another third at Kaiser Oakland (very busy, dozens of cases a day, not as good of teaching, but you learn by doing), and the other third at Highland Oakland (crazy busy county hospital in the ghetto, very autonomous, only 2 part time attendings for the 4 residents - the residents run the show, including filling in the scheduling books). Between all 3 places you get a good education. I experienced to some degree, and have heard more recently about St. Mary's being financially strapped and the CEO is squezzing the ortho department to the point that I heard they may become an east bay program (this is a bit of a rumor, so if one of the current residents can clarify this it would be helpful). In may ways this would be a great thing, at least it would cut down on the commute across the bay bridge for lectures, etc., but at the same time would be detrimental since the best teaching is at St. Mary's. The residents take home call all five years. At St. Mary's that means you rarely go in, at the other places you can spend all night there, and with home call the 30 hour rule doesn't apply, so you might be there all day too. Research is almost non-existent, although all the resdients do complete something and they have 3 months set aside. They have some agreement with Stanford and usually go down there for whatever they end up doing. The residents there are awesome, very laid back and fun-loving. Being in/ around SF is awesome - I think it's one of the coolest cities in the world. The attendings are all nice, no malignancy, and very competant. Several attendings did resdiency/fellowships at big name places (HSS, Harvard, Kerlan-Jobe, etc.) and so the residents tend to get into great fellwoships if they want. In terms a competativeness, I think they may be a little less than the rest of the program in Cali, but not much. On the other hand I think they are much more selective in who they are looking for. If you get an interview there, you have a great shot of getting in (3 out of 10 that they interview get in), but rotating there isn't the most bang for your buck (only 5 of 15 rotators typically get interviews). Rotating there couldn't get easier, no call, no weekends, and still a decent learning experience.

There aren't many downsides. Reaserch isn't great, if you care about that. It's a community program, which to some people is a slight disadvantage, to others it's an advantage. They have a new chairman, the last one was there for 30 years, and I heard they would be on automatic probation because of it. They're old coordinator also left, and while she had some personality disorders, she was the mother that kept everything together. I have no idea what the new coordinator is like, she might be just as good, or better. In regard to probation, I heard from the old coordinator that the RRC has been giving them a hard time for years about not being affiliated with a university, and as a whole the program was the least stable of any I personally got to know.

I hope this helps.
20 years ago
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Just to respond to Boneheads message. I'm a pgy-2 at the San Francsico orthopaedic program, and can help clarify some of the points made in the posting.

Much of what he says is true in terms of rotations. The Program recently went througha chairman change, and as you may well imagine, this created some feeling of instability. However, the transition has been very smooth. Many new changes and initiaves have been introduced by the chairman to improve the program as well.

Research: we were recently given several hundred thousand dollars dedicated solely to research and hired a research coordinator. All of the residents now have several projects going ranging from basic sci to biomechanics to clinical trials. We have access to the Kaiser Joints/sports/trauma registry which is now the largest in the world and there is tons research to be done...it just hasn't been stressed until now. Biomechanical Lab's at stanford are accesible as well. We also are revamping our bioskills lab and will start with monthly bioskills labs along with cadaver dissection which we already have.

That being said, research, while existent, is not top priority. Operating and orthopaedics is.

The hospital situation for the mean time is stable and there is no talk of leaving st. Marys. The CEO, who is a total wanker, gets along better with the current chairman. The new coordinator is doing an excellent job, though the old one was a blast and the mother hen! We'll see where that goes.

In terms of commute/etc. classes are held twice a week, once in the east bay, once in SF. Commuting isn't a big deal as its off traffic times and thus about 25 minutes, plus its nice to have protected time. The website has the lecture schedule and, for those who dont know, ALL of the OITE's from '98-'05 are on the website with electronic Q and A and publically accesible - so use it during residency.


The RRC did place in a one year ADMINISTRATIVE (not academic) probation secondary to chairman change/wanker CEO, though more research was also requested. As there are about 25 current research projects ongoing as part of this recent initiative, I don't think it will be an issue. And the CEO coughed up some money with some arm-twisting.

I would disagree about rotating here - rotating here gives you a great chance of getting an interview and getting in, providing you get along with everyone which isn't hard as 1) the residents here are a super laid, back fun group and b) the rotation is CUSH. We are expecting the rotation will incorporate some clinic time at Highland (county hospital) in the future, but if you want to learn some ortho, hang out with good folk, and have time to enjoy SF, its worth it.

It's funny reading all the posts about what is good/what isn't It's really all dependant on what you're looking for. For some HSS is the best, and for some...well here's the best. If High academic reputation is a priority, then this place is not for you, but i spent 4 years at a big name place with tight sphincter tone and that was enough. Its nice to just be yourself, get along with your attendings, and operate a lot - about 1500 cases by chief year and ALWAYS as primary or assist! NO holding hook or staring over shoulders. It is great operative and outpatient training working in the county clinics and with the extremely hands on attendings in their private offices.

In terms of rotations, the website spells it out in terms of breakdown.
I can tell you, we have tumour at Kaiser which is the northern Cali referral for all of Kaiser (largest HMO in the universe) and is active. The rest of what bonehead said about the rotations are relatively accurate. There is currently no foot and ankle, but its being worked on, though personally, I'm more than happy letting our podiatry colleagues take care of it (Podiatry has very wide operative privileges in CA)

Call (the 30 hour rule) is usally not much of a problem. I have only once gone over 8o hours. If you have a brutal night on call, you can usually get out by noon the next day, but if its a busy day, you stay and operatie. It's residency, man. Intern year is in-house with gen surg/medicine for 7 months. There is no ortho 1st year, but I was fine by that. I have the rest of my life to learn ortho, and I'm a doctor first/orthopod second. And I can muddle through an EKG now even! Otherwise call is around Q4 home call with 2 weekends off for 8 months a year, and 3 weekends off for 4 months of the year - pretty sweet. Lots of skiing/hiking/sailing/golfing/biking and partying in what is one of the best cities around.

In the end, the program you choose has to fit you. I got a great vibe when I interviewed here, and haven't been dissapointed. I'm pretty surprised at how much, even as a one, I've been able to do and the amount of autonomy (guided autonomy) I've been given.

Feel free to email me with any questions. But not in late april as I'll be off on a two week vacation in Bali, Beeyatches
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and as every orthopod should learn to write]www.orthogate.org/media/kunena/emoticons/icon_cool.gif[/img]

Cheers
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