value of 2nd looks?

2 parts to answer this question. 1) i did a 2nd look last year that significantly affected my rank list. i had heard that the qualitative experience among the residents was different at this program depending on if you were considered a 'good' resident or not (this is a large program where everyone does not rotate with the same attendings). this was refuted by the residency director on the day of the interviews. i really liked the place and set up a 2nd look a few weeks later. when i went back and asked a chief resident the same question, he and the other 2 residents standing with us said that this definitely was true. this was key for me in not ranking this program #1.
2) i got the impression from the residents and attendings that doing a 2nd look was helpful at this program as i had not rotated there and was a competitive applicant and this gave them more than the brief hours on the interview day to look at me. i spent 2 days there.
hope this helps.

i'm doing a 2nd look at a program i had initially thought i would rank highly (in the pre-interview season) and at which i got a very limited exposure to on the interview day (not much opportunity to interact with residents, very rushed interviews, etc etc.) i don't want to discount this program based on what little i actually saw and/or heard on interview day, but i don't also want to rank it highly just on name alone and not really getting a feel of whether or not i'd even feel as though i "fit" with the program (a very important factor for me - much moreso than name recognition.)

so i'm doing a 2nd look day in hopes of spending some time with the residents and seeing what their interactions/days/schedules/etc are really like and what they think. i had very little chance to interact with them on interview day. hopefully this way i'll get a better feel for the program and figure out where on my list it's going to be. (it was originally one of my top 3 choices and now i'm just not sure where to put it.)

I personally think second looks are irritating. At least at our program, all of the staff put aside the time for interview days and the social event surrounding the interview. Interviews are over, our rank list is made, so make your list and be done with it. Truth is, you will probably look at your rank list in 5 years and be thankful for where you ended up no matter what you rank them.

i'm guessing Mayo, right?

Second looks are invaluable for smaller programs (2-3 residents). This is because matching people who they cannot tolerate spending every moment with is unacceptable. Whereas, at a large program, a resident who doesn't fit in can just be ignored and avoided. Programs cannot possibly get to know you in 15 min increments. Also, there is less pressure on the applicant when there are not 30-40 others there as well and they are in the spotlight of a group interview. On second looks aplicants can be themselves. That being said, my program (2 per year) usually matches 1 who came at some point, and 1 who didn't each year. Furthermore, at my medical school home program, if you came back for a second look they would usually take you down the rank list because they thought it was annoying. (be careful where you go, if they mentioned it on the interview day, they are probably not anti-second-lookers)

thanks boneblaster...i couldnt agree more and i'm glad i'm not the only one.

as a sort of odd aside, i had one dept chair call me up personally and ask me if i was interested in coming for a 2nd look .... so it seems to me that it's a fair bet to say it's program-dependent.

I agree that of course, it is program-dependent. However, I think that 2nd looks should be used more for you to get a better idea of what a program is about (especially if interview day was rushed and you didn't rotate at a certain program) and not because you think it will profoundly affect their rank list. For example, we had someone last year who had come across as very cocky on interview day and was not ranked highly, and probably didn't change anyone's opinion by coming back for a 2nd look. It is possible that some programs place weight on 2nd looks when making their rank lists, I just know that ours doesn't.

The value of a second look is pretty much all to the applicant in their own decision making. Most places are not going to change your spot on the rank list based on a second visit. As previously mentioned some may even find it "annoying", although I bet they only find it annoying when it is an applicant they are not really crazy about to begin with, versus someone they would really like to get

oh i completely agree ... in terms of my trying to "influence" a program's rank of me - they have my application and my interview. that's all they should need. beyond that, it's just games and i don't like playing the schmooze game. just not my style.

the only reason i'm doing this particular 2nd look is exactly as you stated - because i thought i'd really like the program before my interview and i didn't rotate there + interview day was kind of nuts and i didn't get to talk to the residents. so i wanted to get a better idea of the place for myself.
Rendering Error in layout BBCode/Image: Layout 'BBCode/Image:default' Not Found. Please enable debug mode for more information.

I will echo what a lot of other people have said that doing a second look probably best serves an applicant because it gives them a more comprehensive view of the program. However, I feel that people are understating the potential value of a second look from a matching perspective. I know we would all like to think of ourselves as really special and that we all stand out in the crowd, but most programs are probably interviewing at least 10 people per spot and it is easy to get lost in the mix since the vast majority of applicants are outstanding. Doing a second look without question will make you more memorable and if you come off well it at the very least has the potential of improving your chances of matching at a program. Obviously, it might not make a difference at every program and it probably is a reasonable generalization that it will matter more to smaller programs like my own. However, I think it is naive to think that if you spent a few days working with a chairman at most programs that they would not have the ability to affect your position in a rank list in a positive or negative way. Plus, doing a second look at a program shows you are interested and even though that probably should not matter, I think it is similar to the rest of life--people inevitably tend to "like" people better when they seem interested in who they are.
In regards to playing the game, I figure it is like football and you have to fight not just for every yard but every inch because when clock ticks down to zero, it can mean the difference between a win and a loss. In the match, getting bumbped up a programs rank list even a few spots could mean the difference between matching at that program or maybe not matching anywhere at alll. You never really know until you are holding the match letter in your hand and even then you still will never truly know how close you may have been to not matching.
For what it is worth, I personally was a middle of the road applicant and did a second look at a competitive program. I doubt I was ranked very highly after the interview day, but before the match I received favorable phone calls from residents and the chairman. I am 100% confident that would not have happened without a second look.
I definitely think doing a second is far from required. But if you really liked a program, I think there is more than one good reason to do it.