The Gateway to Your Orthopaedic Career.
  Wednesday, 03 February 2010
  29 Replies
  103 Visits
0
Votes
Undo
Anyone else having a drastically different ranklist now compared to when they started? I'm starting to realize how much more important it is for me to be in a good city that my family will enjoy / be safe in rather than going to a "big name" program.

Also, my numbers 4-10 keep cycling on a daily basis... Here's to hoping the next 6 weeks or so pass relatively quickly!
16 years ago
·
#66565
0
Votes
Undo
Me too!!!!!
16 years ago
·
#66566
0
Votes
Undo
just a point about the rules, a program can't force (or expect) you to tell them where you have applied (assuming that you applied to every place you rotated).

"In addition, it is a breach of the applicable Match Participation Agreement for:

(c) a program to require applicants to reveal the names or identities of programs to which they have or may apply"

so, while it may be skirting the issue, you don't have to say anything about any other place.
16 years ago
·
#66567
0
Votes
Undo
The only reason I asked my dean & ortho chair was because the PD from UMKC told us on interview day they would contact us and that if we ranked them lower, it might prevent us from being ranked at all.
16 years ago
·
#66568
0
Votes
Undo

That seems like a match violation atleast in spirit.
16 years ago
·
#66569
0
Votes
Undo
I read the post, and as I didn't match first time around but did the second I had to chime in. I think some great points are made above.

First, the whole where else did you interview and where did you rotate question. Programs don't invite people to interview unless they are comfortable with them as a potential resident at that program on paper. After that cut has been made they look for reasons (any reasons) to rank the applicants. They definately want someone at their program who wants to be at their program (they've had both in the past and someone who does not want to be there is a huge drag on the other residents and the attendings not to mention the mess it makes when a resident leaves a program). These questions are a way for them to start to guage your interest in them. Unfortunately, it's a game. Those who play it well will match. You don't need to be dishonest, but don't fool yourself by thinking they are being totally upfront with you. If they tell you things like "you are an exceptional applicant, and I think you would do very well at this program" (heard this and varriations at several interviews right before not matching at all), understand that they are simply trying to get you to bump them up on your rank list. If you rotated only in the midwest and you're interviewing at a California program, they want to know so they can bump you down the list. Applicants start looking very similar once you get to those you invite to interview, and the little things start becoming big things. It is in their best interest to ideally have every applicant rank their program number one so they would have their pick of whomever. They will do whatever it takes to acheive or come close to that (do a little search on the ask the attending forum and see some telling confessions by attendings).

Second, contacting your top programs. If nobody did this it wouldn't matter. However, many applicants do this so it does matter. If you are that applicant who is higher on the rank list but does not call, you will be bumped in favor of the applicant who showed interest. Again, programs want applicants who will be happy at their program. Case in point -- three applicants in my class interviewed at a certain midwestern program. Only two of us actually were initially invited to interview. The third had rotated there, made several phone calls to residents and attendings after being rejected for an interview and eventually actually was given an interview. Guess which one of the three matched at that program. Not the two who made the initial list, but the one who didn't make the cut initially but showed the most interest. Don't discount this. It is truly a big deal. However, don't lie. That's also a big deal. Ortho is a small world, and you can get caught in telling multiple programs they are your number one pretty easily.

Third, the outside the match thing. I turned down an offer outside the match too, but thankfully matched. It's a long story, but needless to say an extremely difficult and personal decision. It had mostly to do with family (ergo the where did you rotate and where have you interviewed question from interviewers). I felt strongly that I should turn the offer down, and I'm glad I did. However, that didn't prevent me from feeling sick for a couple days and second guessing myself for a couple months afterward. I had received one of those "you're in our top whatever" emails that helped me (though, again, the email could have just been part of playing the game).

To both Iliz and Calvin the best of luck this time around. It's very difficult to do this twice. Matching is worth it all, however, so stick with it. I got sick of the why ortho and why didn't you match the first time questions too. However, I don't answer them anymore. I just go to work and am thankful I'm an ortho resident. You'll get there. I have a friend who went through it three times and failed only to get a last minute spot outside the match. You can bet he was on cloud nine when that call came. Hang in there. Your dedication will get you through anything residency can throw at you, and you'll appreciate being an ortho resident more than most residents really can.
16 years ago
·
#66570
0
Votes
Undo

I'm going to disagree. I ask this question to people I interact with or interview in order to help them make good decisions, pointing out where our program may be different (better or worse) than other programs they are familiar with. It is in the interests of our program and the applicant to have people who wanted to come to the program, AND wanted to come for the right reasons. We gain nothing by selling a tall story that isn't true, and an applicant arriving and finding out we aren't who we said we were.
16 years ago
·
#66571
0
Votes
Undo
Obviously I'm not in love with the match system secondary to my history with it. It's great that some interviewers have a different motive for asking the where did you rotate and interview questions than most interviewers out there and you don't let the geography or academic vs. community stuff influence your decision about the applicant in any way whatsoever.

As confirmed above, it is in the best interest of the program (and I would agree the applicant) to be at a program they want to be. Therefore I'd stick to the importance of showing that interest in reasonable professional ways rather than assuming programs know you are interested just because you spent the money you didn't have to get to the interview. So did everybody else. The above post is a great example of what gets people to match. When a program feels the applicant is interested and interested for the right reasons that applicant will be high on the list. Maybe, then, the way to answer these inevitable questions is to focus the answer on why you rotated at those programs and let the geography slide hoping for more of the above type interviewer than the usual. Again, forgive the sinicism. Someday I may get over it, but being involved on the other side of the process has not helped much. It may take some time. I'm just hoping someone out there may pick up on the importance of not assuming this process is all above board and objective. Most people realize that, but a few may not and hopefully will not go through it as passively and nievely as I did the first time around. Hopefully they spell better than I do as well (sorry).
16 years ago
·
#66572
0
Votes
Undo
jdoc thaks for the nice words.

As I've said before the interview question may be to help 'guide' the applicant, but although the intent may be benevalent, it will wind up hurting you because of the psychology involved.

No applicant has the same vision of a program that someone who is interviewing candidates does. Even if the program is super academic and the applicant thinks the interviewing program is academic, they will differ on some level.

No two programs are alike, and everyone has conotations about the other program. If you mention one program, the interviewer will always think (and even if they say..we're similar) that you're interested in that program only, and that's what you're interested in. And since no program is alike, they will not think that you want to goto their program, because despite they are "similar" they're still not the same.

If forced into saying which places you rotated at (and I was forced into, I said I went down to here and did one in this state) and they said 'no, which programs'. I tried to explain that I chose them to have a good look at multiple types of programs.. blah blah.


It's a game.. and you have to play it, well,... well.
  • Page :
  • 1
  • 2
There are no replies made for this post yet.